Deposit advice - Updated 10.06.08

tbs624

[quote=sexki11en;11241321Also,_I_was_under_the_impression_that_they_could_only_charge_us_for_the_remainder_of_the_guarantee of the sofa - not expected lifespan . Am I right here or can they charge us for the 12 year expected life? ......... Also I have not yet informed them that I know the sofa was purchased in 2004 - not 2005 as they have told us.
[/quote]

All these things are up for negotiation - my previous point was that you could use the guarantee as a guide - and if they still can't produce copy receipts or anything that confirms that the sofa was in pristine condition when you took the Tenancy on, then they will struggle. Cheaper sofas don't last long in most rented properties, and a 12 year life expectancy would be more likely in your own home, not a tenanted property.

Okay, so the full cost of a new sofa would be £599. It says on the web site "guaranteed for 5 years" and with careful use it could probably last 6/7 years. However, furniture in a rented property will have a shorter lifespan, because its a fact of life that if you own something you take better care of it, and potential new tenants won't want to rent a property with shoddy furniture so as a LL you'd replace it.

IMO the LL cannot insist on flea treatment unless she has evidence of the actual existence of fleas and that they weren't there before you and your cats moved in.

Did you tell the cleaning firm that you used yourself what the LA has said?

puddy

i dont think 12 years for a sofa in a rented property is realistic. my sofa is 11 years old and its knackered. i live on my own. i do have 2 cats but that isnt why is seen better days.

Tori_Bellatrix

jenner wrote: »

i dont think 12 years for a sofa in a rented property is realistic. my sofa is 11 years old and its knackered. i live on my own. i do have 2 cats but that isnt why is seen better days.

No, I think it's stretching the realms of credibility a bit! I had a sofa which was 5 years old and it was ready for the tip after that amount of time. The agents are just swinging the lead ... 12 years usage of a sofa in a rented property isn't realistic in my book ..

sexki11en

tbs624 wrote: »

All these things are up for negotiation - my previous point was that you could use the guarantee as a guide - and if they still can't produce copy receipts or anything that confirms that the sofa was in pristine condition when you took the Tenancy on, then they will struggle. Cheaper sofas don't last long in most rented properties, and a 12 year life expectancy would be more likely in your own home, not a tenanted property.

So what would you suggest is a reasonable amount of time/money to offer given what they are suggesting? The LA are saying their calculations are based on the Rent service depreciation guide, how do I argue with this?

[/INDENT]IMO the LL cannot insist on flea treatment unless she has evidence of the actual existence of fleas and that they weren't there before you and your cats moved in.

I've still not replied to this via e mail or writing as I want the option to deny having had cats if I have to do that

Did you tell the cleaning firm that you used yourself what the LA has said?

We have repeatedly tried calling them but they don't answer the phone. I emailed them this afternoon with the following e mail as thats how they've responded in the past

Dear cleaning company

I have today received the e mail below from my letting agents. They have around 20 photos of the flat after you completed the cleaning showing bins not emptied, hair in the sink plugholes, dust around and stains on the carpet which should have been cleaned (amongst other things) and intend to charge us to send someone in again.

We have a receipt from yourselves saying this work had been completed. They are offering us the opportunity for you to come in again and complete this work so that we are not charged another £140 as we have alreay paid you £85.

Could you please reply to this as the photo's really are quite shocking.

I myself was not there at the time the cleaning was finished but quite obviously this is not acceptable and the work that you quoted us for (and which I have a copy of) was not completed.

We have tried repetedly to contact you on the phone without any success.

I await your response.

Kindest Regards

Sexki11en

Tori_Bellatrix

Attached is the OFT's guide on unfair terms ... It maybe helpful for unfair charges .. http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf

Tori_Bellatrix

This should also be helpful in working out any monies to offer for the sofa .. http://www.arla.co.uk/download/dealing_with_deps_disps_dams.pdf

sexki11en

Thanks Tori. Am looking through both documents now.

Still a bit unsure as to the 'reasonable' lifespan of a sofa in a rental property tho.

Sk x

Tori_Bellatrix

I wonder if you can phone other lettings agents and try and get some advice on furnished properties ... Or give Shelter or Arla a ring for further guidance ..

poppy10_2

sexki11en wrote: »

The first interesting thing they told me is that LL is making a claim on her insurance for the sofa (as well as charging us!)

I would let the insurance company know - they are very interested in these sorts of things.

sexki11en

Ok, below a letter which has taken 1 1/2 hours to construct. I intend to send this tonight so they receive it first thing in the morning. Your advice, as ever, gratefully received. Apologies for the length - I wanted them to know how seeryarse I was being

Dear LA,

We would like to bring to your attention several issues:

a) We have yet to receive a copy of the receipt for the original purchase of the sofa. Despite you telling us it was new in 2005 (not stated on the inventory and your deductions being based on this) we have reason to believe it was in fact new on 14th September 2004, and despite us having requested this receipt from you on no less than 2 occasions since the end of our tenancy, we have yet to receive it.
b) We do not believe that 12 years is a ‘reasonable’ lifespan for a sofa in a rental property. The sofa in question is guaranteed by the manufacturers for a period of 5 years from the date of purchase only.
c) We have dated evidence supporting the fact that the property was not in a clean state on commencement of the tenancy, along with written evidence on the copy of the amended inventory you received from ourselves on 06 March 2007. Therefore your charges of £140 (plus VAT) would be deemed unreasonable as we have already gone over and above our contracted responsibilities as per Section 7, paragraph 1 of your own tenancy agreement by supplying the services of professional cleaners. A receipt for this work has been provided to yourselves.
d) Regarding flea treatment. We absolutely refute your claims that you were unaware we had cats in the property. This was the first thing we mentioned when we walked into your offices to ask for your help in finding a property. We also requested you call Mrs Dolan to request permission on our behalf, before we took up the tenancy agreement. The fact that no letter was provided to us is entirely an error or oversight on your own part. To introduce a fee for flea treatment after we have vacated the property and ended our contract with you, with no prior written or verbal notice is completely unacceptable. No mention was made during or after any of your inspection visits (every 12 weeks) that we were in breach of our tenancy agreement with you by keeping cats in the property and we find it unbelievable that despite these inspections you failed to notice 3 cats, their feeding bowls, a litter tray and other evidence of cats in the property.
e) We have consulted a number of agents to assist us in our grievance with you. In accordance with their guidelines, I attach 2 documents. The Office of Fair Trading – Guidance in Unfair Terms in Tenancy Agreements and ARLA – Summary of the Principals of Dealing with Deposits, Disputes and Damages. We would like to draw to your attention the following paragraphs from The Office of Fair Trading – Guidance in Unfair Terms in Tenancy Agreements :

3.53 Forfeiture of security deposits.
3.86 Supplier's right to vary terms generally
3.87 Supplier's right to vary terms generally
3.88 Supplier's right to vary terms generally
4.3 Allowing the landlord to impose unfair financial burdens
4.4 Allowing the landlord to impose unfair financial burdens
4.7 Allowing the landlord to impose unfair financial burdens
4.8 Allowing the landlord to impose unfair financial burdens
4.44 Landlord discretion in relation to obligations
4.45 Landlord discretion in relation to obligations

In view of all of the above points, we offer a payment of £156.72 to cover the costs of replacement sofa covers. This is broken down as follows:
Replacement cover cost: £569.90
Guarantee: 5 years
Sofa purchased on: 14th September 2004
Remaining Guarantee at end of tenancy: 16.5 months

We do not agree to the deduction of £140 (plus VAT) for you to instruct cleaners to visit the property on 29th May 2008 (as advised by e mail today). As noted in point c) our obligation was to return the property to you in the same condition we received it. We believe the property was returned in a cleaner state than which it was received.

We do not agree to deductions of £94 for flea treatment as this was never a condition of the tenancy, written or verbal as noted in point d) above.

Therefore we request confirmation by 28th May 2008 (as originally requested) that we will receive our deposit of £975 less deduction of £156.72, equalling a total of £818.28. If we do not receive this confirmation via email by 5pm 28th May 2008, we will commence legal proceedings against Mrs LL to recover monies owed to us on 29th May 2008.