NPower gas 'sculpting'

Cardew

DirectDebacle wrote: »

. If you're concerned about an earlier period please ask for the previous version of this leaflet.


What concerns me is the sentence I highlighted in bold. What was the previous version of this and does anyone have one. I am thinking in terms of them fabricating one of these going back to October, 2004, to cover their tracks, or am I just being cynical.

I think you are being too Machiavellian!

They haven't stated that it was a previous version produced in 2004(although it implies it was) but could be a version produced yesterday explaining the system in force in 2004. No doubt explaining in detail the definition of a 'Tariff Year'!

Or am I being too Machiavellian.

Must be you or I as nobody could ever accuse NPower of being other than 'up front and straightforward!'

DirectDebacle

Cardew wrote: »

Must be you or I as nobody could ever accuse NPower of being other than 'up front and straightforward!'

Think it must be me. So far we have had:

'You were billed correctly'

'We didn't overcharge you, you just think we did'

'We lowered the tier 1 price so no-one was overcharged'

'Some were overcharged but most wern't and it was a one off caused by a short year which for some reason only lasted from April to October and we adjusted some other months as a result so everything is ok now.'

'You forgot to allow for the tariff year'

Tariff year invented and explained

'Cycle' invented and explained

'You were billed correctly but here is a goodwill payment'

'We seem to have a lot more goodwill than we thought so here is a bigger goodwill payment'


As you say Cardew, can't get much more up front and straightforward than that. Yep definitely me. Court cases are looming and with the chance of them paying out millions in refunds and fines, customers leaving in droves etc I get the feeling that there'll be more rabbits popping out of hats than you'd find at the Duracell Bunny enclosure at Ascot.

On the bright side it's only 80 days to Christmas.

DirectDebacle

Which reminds me. If you are going to make a Christmas cake do it soon. They take about 4 to 4.5hrs to cook. Best to do it before the 882 high rate units per month kick in at the end ofOctober.

marky1125

Hi,

I've recently received a £50 cheque from the compliants department due to my complaint of being overcharged for the Nov'06 to Nov'07 period (I actually joined in Dec'06). For your interest here's the exact letter they sent me...

Dear Mr. [name removed]

I am writing to you to confirm the following information in response to your telephone conversation regarding the seasonal weighting pricing structure.

As you know npower's gas charges for non-prepayment customers are based on two tier tariffs i.e. a higher primary block rate and a lower follow-on rate. Under a seasonally weighted profile more primary block units are charged in the winter months, reflecting greater winter consumption. For the 12 months from 1st November 2007, when we re-introduced this method of billing, customers will be billed no more than 4,572 units at the primary block rate, as you can see from the profile set out below:

Month(07-08) Maximum Primary Units
November     882
December     882
January      882
February     882
March        272
April        271
May          46
June         46
July         46
August       46
September    46
October      271
             -----
Total        4,572

In the previous year, after operating on a seasonally weighted profile for the 6 months from 1st November 2006 (during which you were charged no more than 3,389 units at the primary block rate) we changed to a flat or equal monthly basis (381 units each month) for the 6 month period from 1st May to 31st October 2007 at a time that we carried out work to move all customers' billing records to a single billing system. At the same time we reduced the price of our follow-on units by 23% (and increased our direct debit dual fuel discount from £60 to £80). So the increase in units at the primary block rate needs to be balanced against the benefit of our follow-on unit price decrease and where appropriate an increased discount.

Going back even further, gas customers with us for the previous 12 months, 1st November 2005 to 31st October 2006, would not have been billed for any more than 4,572 units at the primary block rate. The same applied for the 12 months before then.

Based on the above information you have been billed correctly. I appreciate you feel you have been overcharged, however you have been charged in accordance with the billing structure, which is inclusive of the period of 6 months for which the monthly amounts were changed to an average over 12 months, which is 381 KW/h.

In light of the time taken to fully explain the above information and the customer service you have received I have enclosed a cheque for £50.00.

Please accept my apologies for the level of service you have received while trying to resolve this and thank you for your patience during this matter.

I trust the above provides a suitable resolution for your complaint, however if you have any further queries please feel free to contact me directly on [number removed], I will be happy to help.

Yours sincerely.
[name remove]

I've taken the time to look into my billing. I have been able to match the calculations in my bills to the T1/T2 splits based on seasonal and average values. I then looked at the price change mentioned above as a mitigating factor.

12/12/2006-30/04/2007 T1 unit = 4.042p T2 unit = 2.177p
01/05/2007-31/10/2007 T1 unit = 4.412p T2 unit = 1.915p
                                (+9%)            (-12%)

I joined on 12/12/2006. The letter mentions a 23% price drop in the follow-on unit price. I actually got a 12% price drop in follow-on unit price. In addition the letter neglects to mention the 9% price increase in T1 units.

So I recalculated my bill for the 6 month period without changing the tariff and actually found I'd have been £4 better off if they hadn't changed tariff prices. So that's £20 extra DD discount less £4, so £16 better off. Not much of a compensation really.

I thought I'd share this information with everyone. Good luck pursuing your rebates.

All the best,
Mark

Cardew

mark,

Thank you. Interesting post.

There is a confusing typo in your second line - you joined Dec 06. also the drop of 12% from 2.177p should presumably be to 1.915 not 1.195p

Sorry to be pendantic - I always look at the bigger picture!!!!!



The bottom line is that even according to their figures you were charged for 3,389kWh from 1 Nov 06 to 01 May 07 and then 2,286 kWh from 01 May 07 to 31 Oct 07(6 x 381). So in that year you were charged for 6,675kWh in a year when your Terms and conditions stated 4,572kWh per year. So 2,103 additional Tier 1 units.

marky1125

Cardew wrote: »

There is a confusing typo in your second line - you joined Dec 06. also the drop of 12% from 2.177p should presumably be to 1.915 not 1.195p

Thank you Cardew you were spot on. I've now edited my post to make those corrections (I hope that doesn't offend anyone, it makes the post read more accurately for anyone else). My typing skills were tested to the max typing in all of that, so I'm sorry, but not entirely surprised, that I made those mistakes. I hope there aren't any more.

All the best,
Cheers,
Mark

DirectDebacle

marky1125 wrote: »

I joined on 12/12/2006. The letter mentions a 23% price drop in the follow-on unit price. I actually got a 12% price drop in follow-on unit price. In addition the letter neglects to mention the 9% price increase in T1 units.

So I recalculated my bill for the 6 month period without changing the tariff and actually found I'd have been £4 better off if they hadn't changed tariff prices. So that's £20 extra DD discount less £4, so £16 better off. Not much of a compensation really.

I thought I'd share this information with everyone. Good luck pursuing your rebates.

All the best,
Mark

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the post. Something isn't adding up here. According to the profile npower say they were using up until 30/4/07 they should have charged you no more than 2614 T1 units from 12/12/06-30/4/07. Then 2286 for May-Oct.

Total 4900.

Check your bills to see how many they did charge from 12/12/06-30/04/07. If it is more than they should have according to their weighting profile then I would query this with them.

Second, don't accept the lowering of the T2 price or increasing DD discounts as any form of compensation. This is a red herring on their part. As Cardew points out the T1 contract is for 4572 in a year. There is nothing in the contract which links the price of the T2 units or the DD discount to the quantity of T1 units. They always have been and still are separate from each other.

If you are still with them or were after 1/11/07 I would do a recalc from 1/04/07 to 31/03/08 or until when you left them. I think you could ask for your bills from 12/12/06-31/03/07 to be recalculated using their correct weighting percentages and then see what you were charged from 1/04/07 onwards.

Its late and am tired so hope this makes sense to you. Maybe you could put your bills on here. Their letter doesn't seem to fall into place with their own calculation methods.

1/11/06 - 30/04/07 using their published weighting profile = 3311.

DirectDebacle

Below is a slightly amended extract from correspondence I have received from npower. It loosely follows the content of the letter marky received but is directed at my claim. I have based this on calendar years of 1st April-31st March as the start and finish for charging the 4572 T1 units .

“From 01/10/2006 to 30/04/2007 (7 months) you continued to receive your gas supply under a Seasonally Weighted charging structure. The maximum quantity of units that we were entitled to charge for this period of 7 months at the Primary Block rate was 3,721. You were actually charged for 3,633 units at the Primary Block rate
With effect from 01/05/2007 a new Cycle began as the charging structure was changed from Seasonally Weighted to Flat. This Cycle continued until 01/11/2007 (a period of 6 months) when a new Cycle commenced. You were not notified of this change. You would have anticipated being charged at the Primary Block rate during this 6 month Cycle in accordance with the Seasonally Weighted charging structure prevailing before the new Cycle began on 01/05/2007 i.e.1182 units. During this 6 month Cycle however, the actual quantity of units charged to you at the Primary Block rate was 2,293, a difference of 1,111. These 1,111 units were charged at the Primary Block rate of 4.412p per unit applying at that time, resulting in a charge for those units of £49.02. You would have anticipated a charge for those units of £27.69, being 1,111 units at the Follow-On rate of 2.492p. The difference is £21.33.”

The above is incorrect for several reasons but dealing with the pure mathematics of it look at what they are saying.

1/10/06-30/04/07 (7 months) they could have charged 3721. Where does this come from? According to their weighting figures this should come to no more than 3644.

Then they refer to 1/5/07-1/11/07 (6 months). Now we have a thirteen month year (1/10/06-1/11/07), or is it a 7 month year followed by a 6 month year. For this next 6 months they say I would have imagined paying no more than 1182 units at the weighting had it not been changed. Had it not changed it would have come to 1262 according to their weighting table.

Of course all this is utter nonsense. With me they have calculated from 1st October, 06 and with marky from 1st November 06. In subsequent correspondence from them they have used the yearly count back from 1/11/07 to define years, which of course does not fit the 1st October 06 they quote above.

Going back to my post #637 re-calculating dates. The two tier system came in on 1st April 03. Logic dictates that every new 4572 per annum will therefore commence on that date each subsequent year. It makes no difference what year or month or what form of weighting was in place when you joined. You pay their T1 at whatever rate they are using at the time you join and on 1st April it finishes and a new 4572 starts for another year. To me this is the only sensible approach to take as it is logical and fits the terms and conditions in the way they were meant to be applied. Trying to follow npowers tortuous reasoning is a futile attempt to make the illogical logical.

Taking this point further would marky, or anyone else for that matter, have joined npower if at the time they had been fully informed of the charging system npower were operating.

Cardew

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the post. Something isn't adding up here. According to the profile npower say they were using up until 30/4/07 they should have charged you no more than 2614 T1 units from 12/12/06-30/4/07. Then 2286 for May-Oct.

Total 4900.

DD,

I think what you have missed is that the letter Mark received was a generic letter, rather than a bespoke reply dealing with Mark's account.

In the previous year, after operating on a seasonally weighted profile for the 6 months from 1st November 2006 (during which you were charged no more than 3,389 units at the primary block rate) we changed to a flat or equal monthly basis (381 units each month) for the 6 month period from 1st May to 31st October 2007

Mark joined 12 Dec 2006 so your calculations are correct, but NPower, in this case, are not wrong in their letter - they just haven't addressed Mark's case.

meggsy

Plenty of reading matter here ....

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Pages/MoreInformation.aspx?docid=4&refer=Markets/RetMkts/ensuppro

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Pages/MoreInformation.aspx?docid=5&refer=Markets/RetMkts/ensuppro