NPower gas 'sculpting'

c0113tt3

I notice some recent posts on here about npower believing they refunded the over charge by lowering tier 2 units from April 07. Have you actually worked this out? i.e add up the tier 2 units over May 2007 to end of oct 07, then multiply this by the price of the new price rate of tier 2, then again using the old rate at tier 2, and subtract them, then you can prove actually how much they saved you for their kind consideration.

For me this worked out at just a little over £1, why so low over a 7 month period? because its over a summer period, ie. you dont use that much gas and never really hit tier 2, only tier 1. Of course they are aware of this !!

The typical over charge on tier 1 during the same period was anything between £25 to £40, again you can work this out. I then challenged them of course, because I have evidence that they didnt compensate by lowering tier 2 price, they did nothing of course !!

Suggest you do the same, If you havent already.

Also, they kindly used this as a marketing ploy against British gas, afore mentioned, to say that they were actually cheaper still, but of course were warned from the asa that the "still" part was very misleading.

DirectDebacle

This price 'reduction' led to me being charged a few pounds more on a bill from May-Aug than if they had left it unchanged, because of the extra high rate units. Of course what they should have done was on 1st November just charge the remainder of the 4572 (1457 units) from then to 31st March 08. Proper year, proper 4572 and no problems. Introducing the rates they did seems like it was all pre-planned prior to April.

RM5_2

c0113tt3 wrote: »

I notice some recent posts on here about npower believing they refunded the over charge by lowering tier 2 units from April 07. Have you actually worked this out?

As I said before this is irrelevant, so don't go there.
If you insist, you have to compare both scenarios for a full year, say 1/5/07 to 1/5/08 for a total consumption of x units. Ignore the price change on 4/1/08, as this was announced and 2nd rate units did not change by much. Assume that the total consumption is high enough that you always use all primary units.

Scenario 1: secondary rate unchanged, sculpting unchanged:
4572*(4.412-2.492) + x*2.492
Scenario 2: lower secondary rate, sculpting changed twice (total percentage 139% over that period)
4572*139%*(4.412 - 1.915) + x*1.915

The break-even point is reached at total annual consumption
x=4572*(139%*(4.412 - 1.915) - (4.412 - 2.492))/(2.492 - 1.915) = 12288
units. This is not that high, and they could say things like that it benefitted some customers while others had to pay more (still strange for a price cut).
Additionally, they said that they set the secondary rate much lower than they 'would normally have set it'. Who knows what that might have been? 2.718p? 3.1416p?
Hence: DON'T go there. Don't let them con you into accepting that the hidden excess primary units embezzled by sculpting changes are part of the legitimate tariff and can be weighed against other parts of the tariff.
When they set the rates at a certain level, they have to charge according to it. They charged much more, so they overcharged. End of story.
Where I come from, this is called Betrug. Fraud is the word on these shores.

Anne3333

Quite right RM5!
.....I wonder what the NPowerish for Betrug is???

Cardew

Agree with RM5 on this, don't get involved with what NPower, would or would not, have done with tier 2 prices.

It is like your supermarket admitting that it has charged you a higher price for milk, than was displayed on the carton.

However they defended that action by saying that they could have charged more for bread.

The issue is simple, if you have been charged for more than 4,572 tier 1 units in a 365 day period*, you have been defrauded.

* usually known as a year!!!

RM5_2

DirectDebacle wrote: »

No doubt they started sculpting in Oct 04 and definitely no breaks.

Just a thought: Have you informed OFGEM that nPower started sculpting in Oct 04 and that you have the bills to prove it? Maybe nPower fed OFGEM the 1/4/06 or 4/12/06 stories. You would think they would not be stupid enough to lie to the regulator, but who knows?

Anne3333

Example of my overcharging

My bill from 3/4/06-3/4/07 is correct.
My bill for 3/4/07-3/4/08 shows I paid 6480 Higher Rate Units.
That is an excess of 1908 units.
My higher rate units were 6.556p each and I deduct the price of my Lower Rate units at 1.99p each, that equals 4.566p each unit overcharged.
1908 x 4.566p = £87.12
+ VAT at 5% that I have overpaid on the £87.12 = £4.36
Does that mean that I have been overcharged by £87.12 + £4.36 = £91.48?

DirectDebacle

RM5 wrote: »

Just a thought: Have you informed OFGEM that nPower started sculpting in Oct 04 and that you have the bills to prove it? Maybe nPower fed OFGEM the 1/4/06 or 4/12/06 stories. You would think they would not be stupid enough to lie to the regulator, but who knows?

No I haven't as only found out myself a few days ago. I'll see if it's possible to email them my figures (bills). I think Ofgem had given npower to the 14th May or something like that to respond.

Where do you come from? Betrug lol.

Anne3333

I can also confirm that they have been sculpting since Oct 2004 as I have all my bills and have been checking them with the very useful spreadsheet that DD gave me. Thank you DD!

Anne3333

RM5 wrote: »

Where I come from, this is called Betrug. Fraud is the word on these shores.

The German for it is Schwindel!