NPower gas 'sculpting'

sofa-spud

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Total T.1 units for 1/4/2004-31/3/2005 (365 days) is 5329
Overcharge is 5329-4572 = 757kWh

Cost 757*1.43p = £11.37 incl VAT.

Just a quick reply to say that is encouraging to find our figures are so close to each other. Using my method I arrived at an overcharge of 743KWH's for the period 13/5/04 to 13/5/06:T

As I said I'll use your example to complete the rest of the years, but it looks like my initial figures are at least in the same ball park.

sofa-spud

Ok,
Just got off the phone to the County Court.
I have been advised by them that the cut-off date is 6 years from the date papers are filed with the court, not the date I entered into discusion with Npower. So for me the earliest date I can go back to will be 1/4/04.
I can file the claim and ask that it be put on hold. This will allow me to file the papers and avoid any further loss of backdating, but still give me time to communicate with Npower.

DirectDebacle

sofa-spud wrote: »

Ok,
Just got off the phone to the County Court.
I have been advised by them that the cut-off date is 6 years from the date papers are filed with the court, not the date I entered into discusion with Npower. So for me the earliest date I can go back to will be 1/4/04.
I can file the claim and ask that it be put on hold. This will allow me to file the papers and avoid any further loss of backdating, but still give me time to communicate with Npower.

Good. Interesting to learn the court can do that.

npower could take 8 weeks or more to put your claim in deadlock and if the Energy Ombudsman were involved it would likely take them at least that much again to reach a decision. That would really eat into the backdating aspect of your claim.

W_s_n

Hi there, I contacted N Power yesterday and they are sending copies of my bills which I should receive in around two to three weeks time.

DirectDebacle

To keep this current claim clear here is a link to an update on the npower 'sculpting' situation

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=30306723#post30306723

colonelhall

Hi there,
It's been a long time, but I have just spotted that the thread is still going.
I have recently applied to switch to Scottish Power, who seem to offer a better rate. As expected, I got a call from Npower offering to switch me from SO-10 to SO-17.
He seemed surprised that I wanted to know specific details and even more surprised when I was able to tell him that the electricty seemed better, but the gas was in fact £2 per year worse!

He then told me that this was not the case based upon my 44,000 kwh annual usage and was stunned when I was able to tell him that my usage had been 32816.

As an old campaigner, I have the details at hand at all times. Anyway, I told him that the Scottish Power rate was better, to which he replied "Ah, but is that with V.A.T. You see, we include V.A.T."

I didn't have absolute confirmation of this so I told him the long saga of the gas sculpting, after which he couldn't wait to drop me. He even said "Don't blame you, mate!"

By the way, their rates do not include V.A.T.

DirectDebacle

Great news on the 'sculpting front. See here for the story and to discuss the ramifications.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=30328481#post30328481

sofa-spud

DirectDebacle wrote: »

13/02/04 13/05/04 1131 2060 2.650 1.380
13/05/04 17/05/04 109 2.650 1.380
17/05/04 13/08/04 891 2.650 1.380
13/08/04 01/10/04 602 2.650 1.380
01/10/04 08/11/04 451 628 2.980 1.550
08/11/04 07/02/05 1704 2788 2.980 1.550
07/02/05 12/05/05 1605 1075 2.980 1.550

Total T1 units for this period 6493

Units for 1/4/04-13/5/05 are
April 381
May 13*12.29 (381/31) = (159.770) 160kWh

Add T1 units as billed until final bill. To work out T1 units up to 31/3/05

April rate is 448.06
May 12 days @ 10.47 per day = (125.65) 126kWh

448+126 = 574

Therefore last bill T1 units (7/2/05-31/3/05) =

1605-574 = 1031

Total T.1 units for 1/4/2004-31/3/2005 (365 days) is 5329
Overcharge is 5329-4572 = 757kWh

Hi DD,
I think there is a mistake in the bill table of mine you reproduced. you seem to have lost some columns after the first line.
I have had a go at using your method and come up with different figures, although it still shows overcharging for both 04/05 & 07/08.
I'd be grateful is someone could do a sanity check on the following figures for me please:D

From ____To _____Bill Date _T1:
13/02/04 13/05/04 13/05/04 1131
13/05/04 17/05/04 13/08/04 __49
17/05/04 13/08/04 13/08/04 _891
13/08/04 01/10/04 08/11/04 _602
01/10/04 08/11/04 08/11/04 _451
08/11/04 07/02/05 07/02/05 1704
07/02/05 12/05/05 13/05/05 1605

Total T1 in period 13/2/04 to 12/5/05: 6433 (1)
As this period covers a total exceeding a year from this I deducted the following days/KWH's

For the period pre-dating the above:
Feb (13/2 to 28/2)
15 -204

March (1/3 to 31/3)
31 -381

For the period post dating the above:
Apr (1/4 to 30/4 inc)
30 -448

May 1/5 to 12/5 inc)
12 -126

Total to be deducted from (1)
-1172

so 6433-1172 = 5261KWH's that was billed @ T1 rate for the year 1/4/04 to 31/3/05

Therefore 5274-4572 =
Overcharge: 702KWH's

Note: for Feb & Mar 04 I used equal weighting (381 KWH's/month) as it pre dates the introduction of sculpting. For Apr & May 05 I used the first sculpting table (448.06 KWH's/month for Apr & 324.61 KWH's/month for May).

Anyone agree or disagree with these figures please?

Sterling

Sofa-spud wrote: »

Just got off the phone to the County Court.
I have been advised by them that the cut-off date is 6 years from the date papers are filed with the court, not the date I entered into discussion with Npower. So for me the earliest date I can go back to will be 1/4/04.

Limitation Act 1980

An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.


As regards Npower’s sculpting switch of 1st October 2004, it seems to me that the cause of action does not accrue until the customer has been overcharged, and he knows by how much. Since the overcharging can’t have happened before the switch of 1st October 2004, this marks the earliest that the clock can start to run surely.

It must also be remembered that the change on that date only resulted in overcharging for any continuous period of twelve months that included that date. Furthermore, the cause of action surely could not arise until the customer knew that he had been overcharged, and that would not be until the expiration of that yearly period, which would be post 1st October 2004. So I do not see a problem with the six year limitation for many months to come.

It must also be remembered that Npower made this change in 2004 in a clandestine fashion, keeping its customers entirely in the dark. Not only was this illegal, it made it impossible for its customers to foresee at the time of the change that they would be overcharged. As I understand it, a cause of action does not begin to accrue until the claimant knew of it or should reasonably had known of it. Exactly when the claimant should reasonably have known can only have been when he was in a position to tot up the high tier units on his bills at the end of the twelve monthly period, and that could be as late as for example spring 2005 or even later.

I don’t think Npower can hid behind the six year limitation period just yet.

sofa-spud

Sterling wrote: »

Limitation Act 1980

An action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.

I don’t think Npower can hid behind the six year limitation period just yet.

A valid point. I only stated my case regarding the 6 year rule as I intend to force them to re-calc my bills from 1/4/04 based on the breach of contract for that year forward.