NPower gas 'sculpting'

meggsy

Hi backfoot, I'm not sure if DD posted a link, but he continues the fight here ....

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=2077559&highlight=

backfoot

Thanks Meggsy,

I will keep in touch with developments there as well, as I hadn't picked up that thread.

I still hope that some sort of conciliation could be acheived which would hopefully make both participants feel happier.

mimo1

Npower are rotten to the core. I advise people to avoid them like the plague.

I joined them when Greenpeace touted their green energy tariff. Eventually I got fed up with their rudeness- the final straw was when I went on holiday for two weeks, and when I returned I found a bill and a separate letter from their debt collection department threatening to send bailiffs round to my flat, just because I hadn't paid the bill yet!

So I paid the bill, and left for Ecotricity, telling Npower why I was fed up with them. But once I'd left, they got far worse.
My account was transferred to Ecotricity, but 6 months later I got a huge bill from Npower, for several hundred pounds, acting as if they were still my supplier! It took me a month to sort that out with help from Ecotricity.

Then, Npower sales department started ringing my home phone at least once a week, and cold calling on an almost weekly basis, trying to get me to go back to Npower. I wrote a letter to complain of this harrassment, and it stopped briefly.

Then they started again when their sales team blitzed my neighbourhood with nuisance cold callers. I live in a gated development, and they would trick people into letting them into the gates. Their teenage staff would say "Hi it's gas and electricity here to read the meters", disguising the fact that they were from Npower whenever able, then come in and go round knocking on every door with their sales pitch. The whole point of a gated development is to keep cold callers out, so this was an abuse of power.

I got into the habit of asking which company they were from, and they would always say really quickly in a sing-song voice "Npowergasandelectricity" so you couldn't even here the word Npower. I often have to say "Who?" a few times until I can understand that they're Npower. It's a tad deceitful. I then tell them that I'm not with Npower any more and usually have to turn the intercom off when they start reeling off their sales pitch.

I told Ecotricity about it, and they told me that they have heard a lot of similar stuff about Npower. They said that Npower even come around and read other people's meters, people who aren't even their customers! Ecotricity have been great and match the prices of the other suppliers, without the harrassment and phoney bills. I strongly recommend Npower customers to switch to them.

It's saturday morning, a year on from when I left Npower. They woke me up this morning by buzzing me for entry. Npower are indeed the worst energy supplier. I am a young man, and I fear for how their amoral sales team must be ripping off old people as we speak. My father, who lives the other side of the country from me, has had problems with them overbilling and weaving their inexplicable webs of deceipt already.

Sterling

Hi mimo 1

I know that you have taken some criticism for placing this post on more than one thread, but nevertheless I feel Npower should hang its corporate head in shame. I had hoped the Npower rep who visits the site now and then might have offered at least to investigate your complaints.

My own feeling is that Npower loses a great many customers who probably never return, and potential customers who will never join; all because Npower seems to have the worst customer sales and customer service levels in the industry. To my mind, that smacks of third rate management.

Sterling

Hi Backfoot

I well remember your generous response to my very first post in September 2008, and I also greatly appreciate the trouble you have gone to in writing such a well considered and lengthy post as you have in post #1416.

Back in 2008, we had yet to discover that Ofgem’s investigation into Npower’s gas sculpting would turn out to be such an utter sham and that Ofgem lacked sufficient powers, expertise and inclination to take Npower properly to task; and, as we now also know, Ofgem seemed only too willing to let Npower off the hook.

What had been needed all along was a properly set up energy supply regulator - a truly independent regulator - not just a tame lapdog of the supply companies. I have no doubt that such a proper and independent public guardian would have nailed Npower’s antics firmly to the mast, and ordered Npower to trawl through its database and refund every one of its 2.2 million affected customers. That is what we should have had; but we didn’t.

If Npower had been obliged to refund all of its affected customers, then the aim of this thread would have been fully served, because no-one would have been left out of pocket. Unfortunately, it never happened.

Consequently, the continuing aim of this thread was to help as many Npower customers as possible to claim their money back directly from Npower. What we soon found out was that when customers contacted Npower for a refund, it was customary for them to receive a disgraceful level of denials and misinformation from Npower’s customer service machine designed to put off as many claimants as possible. And very many were indeed put off completely. On the other hand,customers who were prepared to persist with their claims received so-called goodwill payments from Npower “without admission of liability”.

And so this thread continued to help and advise victims of Npower’s sculpting manipulations (of May and November 2007) how to get their money back if they wished toclaim it.

Unfortunately, and as you know, DirectDebacle and I, seemed to have reached a very public difference of opinion as to the advice that should be given to would-be claimants. I don’t propose to comment on that, since the posts are there for all to see and to judge for themselves.

But I would point out that in my post #1402 I declared that I had heeded the pleas from Cardew and Mick Steel to both parties to cease the argument. I made no further posts after that, and I assumed that DirectDebacle would also heed the sound of the bell and stop throwing verbal punches.

Instead, he posted no less than five further posts continuing the argument; two of which were more insulting and offensive than ever (his posts #1406 & 1407); and to save readers having to wade through them, here are some of the highlights.

Post #1406 – “…he [Sterling] may have or already has, damaged the reputation of not only the thread but the MSE site itself.”

Post #1407 – “This was a deliberate deception [by Sterling] designed to mislead the reader…”

Post #1407 – “Sterling was never interested in giving [name of poster] sound advice…”

Post #1407 – “He [Sterling] employed disgusting and deceitful tactics in order to prove his point.”

Post #1407 – “He [Sterling] lied to you and everyone else who read those posts…”

Post #1407 – “His [Sterling’s] aggressive, bullying and confrontational manner needs to be exposed together with his lack of knowledge.”

I am confident that anyone reading my posts will not find anything in them that could possibly give rise to such ridiculous allegations. Even before DirectDebacle had posted the above insulting and defamatory comments, Mick Steel (an impartial and mutual friend) had already tactfully suggested in post #1401 that DirectDebacle should consider apologising to me having regard to the offensive comments he had already resorted to up to that point.

I hope readers of this thread will therefore understand when I say that having been the brunt of DirectDebacle’s multiple posting equivalent to that of road rage, I do not feel remotely inclined to work along side him again unless he posts a genuine apology on this thread, retracting all of his abusive comments.

If he chooses not to offer such an apology, then I hope he will simply maintain a dignified silence as opposed to hurling any further abusive posts in my direction.

Either way, I do not intend to mention this topic again, and I will continue to post on this thread when I can help or have anything useful to contribute.

Law_bean

Hello all,

I thought I would post my experiences with Npower and hopefully inspire others to persevere.

I came across the practice of NPower charging more than the 4,572 kWh after reading an article in the Times. I did my sums and discovered that for both of the 2 years from April 2007 I had been charged more that this threshold. I my case it amounted to 2,200 kWh across the two years, which I calculated equated to about £120.

I wrote to the Customer Services Dept, but got back a standard response denying that they had overcharged. As well as lots of background (irrelevant) information, the gist of the response was that when NPower suspended the previous seasonal allocation of units, they reduced the price of “follow-on” units and increased the dual fuel discount.

But to me, this merely confirmed to me that they knew that their actions in suspending the previous seasonal allocation would/could have adverse consequences and took measures to try and offset them.

I therefore escalated my complaint to the Executive Complaints Team, arguing that their literature consistently quoted the 4,572 kWh level, but did not say that NPower could ignore this level if it changes the price or discount elsewhere.

I am pleased to say that I got a response that, whilst more or less repeating the same arguments, enclosed a ‘goodwill’ payment without admitting liability of slightly more than the amount I was claiming.

Separately, I am kicking myself that I had not explored the potential to switch providers before now. I had been with NPower for 7 years and had fallen for their marketing gimmick of a large annual dual fuel discount. It didn’t take too much research to realise that their underlying prices are much higher. I am now in the process of switching…

DirectDebacle

Good for you and thanks for sharing your experience. npower paying out and losing a loyal customer. Just as it should be.

Sterling

Law_bean wrote: »

I therefore escalated my complaint to the Executive Complaints Team, arguing that their literature consistently quoted the 4,572 kWh level, but did not say that NPower could ignore this level if it changes the price or discount elsewhere.

As you so rightly say, if the contract says one thing Npower can’t do another. In fact, you have got to the very heart of the issue. What a pity the Ofgem investigating team couldn’t follow such a simple and fundamental principle of contract law.

I hope many others follow your fine example. It goes to show that, if you make your claim to Npower in a way which demonstrates that you won’t be fobbed off by phoney excuses, Npower will cough up in the end.

Npower knows as well as we do, that if any customer takes a claim to court over this issue Npower is overwhelmingly certain to lose. If that happens, the floodgates will open as regards similar claims. I knew that when I claimed £1255.07 for my time and trouble as well as for being overcharged £96.36 (see post #1327, page 67).

All these “goodwill” payouts amount to peanuts as compared with the £100 million (plus) Npower is potentially liable for to its affected customers in total.

Sterling

As we all know, Ofgem’s investigation into Npower’s gas sculpting antics, turned out to be a hopeless sham – a damp squib that failed to hold Npower to proper account. That in turn left around two million affected Npower customers out of pocket by up to £100 or more each.

Ofgem’s so-called investigation took nearly a year while we all waited around expecting this regulatory organisation to put matters right. How wrong we were.

Ofgem’s failure was every bit as much a public scandal as Npower’s behaviour had been in the first place. I resolved to make a citizen’s complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman, requesting that Ofgem’s performance in this matter be itself investigated, with a view to deciding whether Ofgem was guilty of maladministration.

However, first I had to make a formal complaint to Ofgem itself, at both of its internal complaint procedure levels in turn; and this I duly did, delivering my first level complaint on 29th April 2009. At each step of the way Ofgem dragged its feet, but eventually by 2nd October 2009 the process was complete, when Ofgem acting as its own judge and jury blew me away with a letter reaffirming (yet again) that it had done nothing wrong.

The letter made it perfectly clear that this was Ofgem’s final response, even though virtually none of the points I had raised had been addressed; and virtually none of my questions raised had been answered either. There was merely a rather smug statement that if I was not satisfied I could refer the matter to the Parliamentary Ombudsman via my MP.

At this point I would like to pay a most sincere tribute to my MP (for South Derbyshire), Mark Todd, who I first contacted in early May 2009. His reply had been most encouraging and supportive; and it was a great relief to find that Mr Todd already possessed a clear and fundamental grasp of the complex issues involved, both as regards Ofgem’s failings and Npower’s gas sculpting antics. Mr Todd asked me to keep in contact with him as my complaint against Ofgem - and my subsequent claim against Npower for compensation - both proceeded.

He even promised me that if he was fortunate enough to be selected to choose the subject for an adjournment debate in the House of Commons, he would devote his debate to this matter and similar issues.

True to his word, when his name was randomly chosen for the debate on Friday 3rd July 2009, Mr Todd did exactly that. The Minister at the despatch box was The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, Mr David Kidney. In that debate, Mark Todd set out the lamentable performance of Ofgem generally, and made specific reference to Npower’s gas sculpting, and he described Npower’s five pages of explanatory notes for customers [entitled “How to Work Out Your Gas Bill”] as …

”well nigh impenetrable”.

He went on to say that

“… the investigation by Ofgem should itself be examined. How long did it take? How were data collected? How did consumers and the company have their say? That would be a test of Ofgem’s fitness for purpose in such matters.”

My own contention is that consumers had no proper representation during Ofgem’s investigation (although Npower did) and that this was a denial of natural justice to the consumer; and that this is one of the many reasons why Ofgem is simply not fit for purpose.

In concluding his speech, Mr Todd added

“Finally, in spite of Ofgem’s qualified all-clear last year, most consumers do not believe the market to be genuinely competitive. Its price movements appear to be like an elephantine dance programme, and the normal triggers prompting quality improvements and sustained price advantages simply do not seem to function. Let us have the Competition Commission examine the market.”

Here is the link to the Hansard PDF file of the full debate (previously placed on this thread by meggsy in post #1237), and which begins on page 40 of that PDF.

http://www.publications.parliament.u...rd/chan105.pdf

The same document contains Mr David Kidney’s speech to the House in reply. In it he makes frequent mention of the many and various assurances that he has received from Ofgem; but then again Ofgem is hardly likely to hold its hands up and admit to the Government when it has made a complete hash of things is it?

Somehow, I feel that as long as Mr Kidney relies upon the assurances of Ofgem alone, I really don’t see how he is ever going to get to the heart of the problem.

That brings me back to my complaint against Ofgem. On 25th November 2009, Mark Todd forwarded my complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman (full title – Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman).

I have now heard that it has cleared the first hurdle where complaints can often be refused at first glance; and it has gone forward for a more detailed inspection to see if a full investigation by the PHSO is warranted. We should know by around mid February.

Sterling

When we receive a computerised bill for our gas or electricity we naturally expect that, provided it contains the correct opening and closing meter readings, the rest of the bill will have been worked out correctly; so much so, that most of us don’t bother to check this.

But there is at least one energy company out there that, despite all its computerised technology, seems to make a myriad of mistakes for no obvious reason at all.

I speak of Npower. Yes – I’m still with them as a gas customer. Well, they are still the cheapest for me; and I suppose I have got used to their little ways… bless.

Anyhow, in December I received my paperless gas bill, covering the period 15/07/09 – 02/12/09 (for some reason I only get two bills a year now), and that bill showed the number of kWh’s charged at the high tier rate over the period in question to be 1383.

However, when I checked this (I have learned not to take Npower’s word for anything) my calculations gave a figure of 1326, some 57 kWh less. Not an earth shattering difference I’ll grant you, but still a difference of close to £3.00 in their favour, including VAT.

So, I sent Npower a friendly email, pointing out that they appeared to have made a mistake; and suggesting that perhaps they would like to remedy it by putting a credit on the next bill due June 2010.

I received a short but firm email from Npower in response telling me that I was wrong and that their bill was right. They also sent me a PDF version of Npower’s “How to Work Out Your Gas Bill”. This dreadful piece of work succeeds in making a gas sculpting calculation seem so unnecessarily complicated that I find myself wondering if it wasn’t deliberately designed to baffle as many customers as humanly possible.

I replied by saying I was familiar with the work, and that my calculations were based upon it, and that their figure and mine were still 57 kWh’s apart. I set out my calculations that gave 1326 and asked how they arrived at their figure of 1383. I received the following in reply. I have put their words in blue to avoid confusion.

“...I do agree with your calculation, the reason that there is a difference of 57 KWH's in your and our calculation is that in your calculation you have worked it out up to 02/12/09, even though we received the reading that was taken 02/12/09 your bill was due for 04/12/09 for the purpose of gas sculpting we will still bill to this date. Two extra days in December is how we have an extra 57 KWH's at the higher rate.”

Although this explanation seemed really dodgy to me, it was clear Npower had no intention of budging; so I emailed back asking a few loaded questions, which brought about an immediate climb down by Npower. Here is what I wrote in case it helps anyone else.

Thank you for your reply, and for confirming that my calculations in my previous email are correct.

However, there is still the difference of 57 kWh’s between my calculated figure and the figure shown by Npower on my current bill. I note that in your explanation you say that “your bill was due for 04/12/09 for the purpose of gas sculpting we will still bill to this date. Two extra days in December is how we have an extra 57 KWH's at the higher rate.”

Unfortunately, this raises the following questions, which I have placed in numbered order for ease of reference, and to which I would be very glad to receive your specific replies.

1. You say “…your bill was due for 04/12/09” - why then is the bill dated 3rd December 2009 and not 4th December 2009?

2. You say “…for the purpose of gas sculpting we will still bill to this date“ [4th Dec].

(a) Why isn’t this mentioned in Npower’s notes entitled “How we Work Out Your Gas Bill? I ask this because those notes refer to “the bill period”, which obviously refers to the dates on the bill, since no other dates are provided.

(b) Why isn’t the date that the bill is “due” shown on the bill, so that customers can properly check their bills?

(c) What do you mean by “for the purpose of gas sculpting”? I ask this because the sculpting system would work perfectly well if the dates shown on the bill were used instead of the “due” date.

3. Unless Npower takes steps to remedy the above points how does Npower expect its customers to know the dates used in its sculpting calculations?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Later that very day I received a phone call from a very charming lady from Npower agreeing that I had been right all along; and that the person who had been dealing with my enquiry “will be sent for further training”. I wonder.

No explanation was offered to me as to how Npower’s computer system got its calculations wrong. But the fact is that it did get its figures wrong. If the same mistake was made to all 2.2 million of its two tier tariff customers, Npower would be around £6.3 million better off (excluding VAT). No doubt Npower would say this couldn’t happen; but then again they told me twice that the bill I queried was correct when it wasn’t.