NPower gas 'sculpting'

Sterling

DD – (post # 1035) - Once again, many thanks for the additional detail and the all the trouble you have taken; and I sincerely hope your headache has now departed.

While the main goal is clearly to get Ofgem to reconsider this matter properly, and to order Npower to compensate every individual customer (past and present) affected by the sculpting changes in May and November 2007; the secondary goal in the meantime is of course to help and encourage as many affected Npower customers as possible to pursue their claims individually; as Ofgem thus far shows no apparent inclination to budge from its present head-in-the-sand position - although I note your rather confident bet with Cardew.

As regards the above secondary goal, and as I mentioned in post #996, I wondered if it would be possible to create a sort of virtual kit for would-be claimants that could be posted on this thread. You see, this thread is now over 50 pages long, and the number of posts has passed the thousand mark; so, newcomers to this thread have quite a daunting task if they wish to trawl right through it from the very start if they want to avoid missing anything important. This is not entirely necessary - granted; but some backtracking is clearly necessary.

I have a hunch that more visitors to this thread would be inclined to make their claim against Npower if this thread contained a “contents” post that newcomers could be directed to, and in turn be directed to other posts for such things as, for example

1. A step-by-step guide to guide to making a claim, including who it applies to, and the barriers Npower may put in the way, and what to do after official “deadlock”. (This of course is all in here already in various posts, but perhaps a summation might be a handy guide - with references to detailed posts in this thread)

2. The options after “deadlock” - of court or the Ombudsman – and the relative merits of each, including costing Npower £325 each regardless (and the incentive that gives Npower to settle beforehand). Also, how to draft the claim documentation. (Again, pretty much all here somewhere and perhaps just needs references to detailed posts in this thread).

3. The calculation of the claim, including (a) how to establish the number of excess high tier units each claimant has been overcharged by, and by how much; (b) calculating the amount to be claimed due to Npower’s failure to inform its customers of the 2007 sculpting changes; (c) a value of the claimant’s time involved and out-of-pocket expenses. (Again, pretty much all here somewhere and perhaps just needs references to detailed posts in this thread).

As for item 3(a) above, I hope my ready reckoner tables help to simplify things (#1006). As for 3(b) above, I wanted to have a go at providing a standard methodology for the assessment and calculations. However, I knew that I didn’t fully understand the argument behind this aspect of a claim, and hence my enquiry. Thanks to your clarification, I am attempting to see if I could come up with anything useful.

DirectDebacle wrote: »

I have come to the conclusion that claim type: Agrajag Sol 6 version 1.1.1007 are best left alone as they complicate the simple Type 1 Excess Units versions 1,2, and 3 and the Type 2 Recalc. version 1.5:D

Finally, I wonder if you would mind clarifying the above; I’m afraid you’ve rather lost me with the shorthand.

meggsy

Originally Posted by DirectDebacle
We won't go away.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/mon...cle5902979.ece

meggsy wrote: »

Well done DD, a brilliant article by The Times :T

Wow, this thread has now been viewed 77,697 times !

After I posted this on Saturday I sent an email to Steve Webb MP and included the email I sent to Ofgem last year in response to their Call for Evidence probe. They asked for evidence and then couldn't investigate the 'sculpting scam' ? :mad:

Notice npower have announced price cuts today but only on electricity :rolleyes:

DirectDebacle

Sterling wrote: »

... I wondered if it would be possible to create a sort of virtual kit for would-be claimants that could be posted on this thread. You see, this thread is now over 50 pages long, and the number of posts has passed the thousand mark; so, newcomers to this thread have quite a daunting task if they wish to trawl right through it from the very start if they want to avoid missing anything important. This is not entirely necessary - granted; but some backtracking is clearly necessary.

I agree entirely with your comments and suggestions. The thread is a hopscotch and is in need of some serious housekeeping. Someone just realising they have been overcharged and coming here for useful info has a devil of a job.

Biggest problem I see is post #1. It was to this that the weekly email directed readers. It is full of inaccurate information which is potentially damaging to claimants. The very opposite of the aims of this site.

I did PM MSE Archna with suggestions (post #969 p 49) but this has not been responded to. The inaccuracies of that post have not been removed. If the mods couldn't care less then straight away we are struggling. Trying to get something done on this site is as difficult as getting Ofgem to investigate npower. On the right hand side of every page are links to 'ONES NOT TO MISS'. I see Bank charges are there. The history, current state of play, guides, calculators, template letters etc should have a dedicated page and permanently shown and available as the Bank Charges are.

From my time on this thread MSE has in the main ignored it and our pleas made to have it more widely publicised. It only made the weekly email because Ofgem came up with less than half a result and Archna couldn't even report that correctly. The thread was receiving a tremendous volume of hits and there has been little news of new or existing claims coming from them. Many would have not got past Archnas' opening sentence,

' In April 2008, npower changed the way it bills gas customers and miscalculated. After a long drawn out process Ofgem has now ruled it must pay back the overcharge. If you were one of its customers (apart from those on prepay) at the time, you should be getting a refund.' So those who joined in April 2007 would think that it didn't apply to them!!! The very people who suffered sculpting at its' peak. Click-lets have a look at the 2- 4- 1 Pizza offer.

Archna should familiarise him/herself with threads before placing posts which are potentially damaging to the thread.

How we go about improving the thread I have absolutely no idea as it seems impossible to contact or receive a response from anyone on MSE who is able to make these things happen. We could thrash out stuff on here and do a mega post. That would have to be repeatedly re-posted before it too became lost. The real answer is with MSE. This is a good thread and it is a single issue involving one company. The fact that it has been going almost a year and is still being supported by at least one respected national daily is testament to its worth. We contributors and the victims deserve better.

I still have irons in the fire re wider public awareness (beyond this thread and site). Whether they come to ought or not remains to be seen. Apart from The Times I haven't had much luck anywhere else.

I appreciate your good work and ideas Sterling, and of course every other contributors useful input. We are all here to help each other. But how to improve the thread and make it easy to navigate is a bit of tricky one for me at the moment.

My 'shorthand', as you put it was nothing more than my strange sense of humour. It has been described as rather oblique in the past on here. Do not include Recalc Type 2 version 1.5 in your next ready reckoner. I haven't decided what it means yet

kevanf1

So, please could somebody tell me what I (or my wife who pays all the bills) has to actually do to get their refund from Npower? We were with them for the past8 or 9 years and we had loads of estimated bills from them in that time.

I apologise if the detials ahve already been put down on this thread but I am simply overwhelmed now by it all. The last I read earlier on was that Npower were supposed to be contacting past customers within a 4 week period. This has to have been over 4 weeks ago now and we've heard nothing.

DirectDebacle

Hi Kevan,

Welcome to the thread. It has become rather monolithic but don't worry you will receive all the 'how to do it' advice you need.

First thing is to establish if your account was of the type to be subjected to overcharging. This only applies to gas, not electricity.

Most but not all gas users were. Certain non-standard tariffs e.g. SOL 8 and prepay meters were not affected.

If you look at your bills you will see how the gas has been charged on it. It should, somewhere, tell you what type of account it is, fixed, SOL, standard etc.

You need to see if gas was charged at two different rates. It will have something like

First 605 @ 7.195p (or whatever you used and your price)
Next 2190@ 2.673p

If this is the case then you are almost certain to have been overcharged.

The overcharging applies to the 'First' units only on your bill. These are often referred to on the thread as 'high units' or 'high rate units', 'tier 1 units' or 'Primary Block 'units. They all mean the same thing.

To establish if you have been overcharged, by how many units and at what price you need to know this. npower are allowed to charge up to and no more than 4572kWh of the more expensive Primary Block units over a year or per annum. You will therefore need a set of bills which cover a period of at least a year. A good period would be any between around mid January 2007- mid April 2008. It is not very likely you will have bills working out to an exact year. Don't worry an approximate year will do. For the year 2007/2008 April 07 to March 08 is ideal but a couple of weeks either way shouldn't make much difference at this stage. Simply add up the number of First or Primary Block units you were charged over the year. If it comes to more than 4572 then you have been overcharged. Come back to the thread for more information and have billing details available. We can then work out precise amounts.

There was another form of overcharging which also occurred in 2007. This is the overcharging that Ofgem recently ruled on and you read people were waiting to be contacted by npower about.

This applies to low users of gas, is very specific and requires billing details for the period. This occurred between 1/5/2007 and 31/10/2007. It is perfectly possible for a customer to have suffered one or both types of overcharging. I don't wish to overload you with detail at the moment. If you are a 'low-user' of gas, difficult to define but 8000kWh per annum or less for example, let us have the billing details.

The first example above started no earlier than 1/10/2004.
The second example occurred within the time frame shown.

There is a third possibility which may apply especially as you are a longstanding customer. This would enable you to claim that all your gas (not just the Primary block units) should be recalculated at 31/3/2003 prices. The difference between that and what you have so far actually paid npower could be refunded.

It looks complicated. It isn't. We will break it down into manageable pieces and take it one step at a time. So lets find out if you were overcharged in the first place.

Good luck with finding your bills.

Amendment: If you joined npower on or after 1/11/2007 it is most unlikely you were overcharged by the methods that this thread discusses.

Cardew

Kevanf1,
If you can't find your gas bills, ask NPower for copies!

1carminestocky

If the get shirty just send 'em a cheque for £10 and ask for them under the DPA. You can always add the £10 to your claim.

hvaghela

DirectDebacle wrote: »

I agree entirely with your comments and suggestions. The thread is a hopscotch and is in need of some serious housekeeping. Someone just realising they have been overcharged and coming here for useful info has a devil of a job.;)

Hi all

The above statement by DD sums it up for me. I came across this thread on the weekend and spent most of Sunday evening trying to get my head round the info, but i was getting myself in a spin :money: . I spent the whole of yesterday evening going through my old nPower bills and drawing up a spreadsheet for myself. I think I've got all the info but I need some help.

I've been an npower dual customer for a couple of years. My gas supply from nPower started on 26.5.6 on the SOL4 tariff, then I switched to the SOL10 on 13.4.8. I am still an nPower Gas customer. My last bill came at the start of Jan 2009 and the last quoted meter reading was on the 9.1.9.

Below is my spreadsheet. I've tried to make into columns for a clearer look but it would always end up looking like this (or worse).

Anyway to explains the columns the first is the dates of the charging period, the second is the primary block units; third - higher rate cost (pence per kWh); 4th -other units; 5th - lower rate p per kWh.

26.5.6 – 1.7.6 247 3.165 270 1.691
1.7.6 – 18.8.6 123 3.639 0 2.047
18.8.6 – 21.9.6 181 3.639 345 2.047
21.9.6 – 1.10.6 68 3.639 794 2.047
1.10.6 – 25.11.6 715 4.265 296 2.399
25.11.6 – 17.1.7 1008 4.265 1998 2.399
17.1.7 – 16.2.7 626 4.265 931 2.399
16.2.7 – 30.4.7 1274 4.265 1577 2.399
30.4.7 – 12.5.7 145 4.412 158 1.915
12.5.7 – 10.7.7 739 4.412 749 1.915
10.7.7 – 6.8.7 256 4.412 0 1.915
6.8.7 – 1.11.7 1082 4.412 562 1.915
1.11.7 – 7.11.7 176 4.412 85 1.915
7.11.7 – 4.1.8 1673 4.412 1465 1.915
4.1.8 – 7.2.8 985 5.339 1059 2.317
7.2.8 – 2.4.8 959 5.339 1758 2.317
2.4.8 – 28.8.8 341 5.215 4280 1.631
28.8.8 – 30.9.8 50 6.867 586 2.041
30.9.8 – 9.1.9 2207 6.867 1956 2.041

Thus by may calculations that is 12,855 of the primary block units from 26.5.6 until 9.1.9 (almost 20 months).

What do I do next?
Thanks in advance.
Herbie

kevanf1

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Hi Kevan,

Welcome to the thread. It has become rather monolithic but don't worry you will receive all the 'how to do it' advice you need.

F

Good luck with finding your bills.

Amendment: If you joined npower on or after 1/11/2007 it is most unlikely you were overcharged by the methods that this thread discusses.

Ah, now therein lies the major problem. I am not at all sure we still have all of our bills. Can I apply for copies from Npower? We have never been on a prepayment or anything like just normal standard charges. We did have the dual fuel thing if that makes any difference, though from what you've said I doubt it.

I also don't thinkwe'll come under the low user for gas either as we are family of 5 and the rest of the household does love to have the central heating up way too high for my comfort...

Thank you.

Kevan

DirectDebacle

kevanf1 wrote: »

Ah, now therein lies the major problem. I am not at all sure we still have all of our bills. Can I apply for copies from Npower?

Yes you can. If they cause you a problem see the post above from 1carminestocky. I would advise that you obtain copies starting from 1/4/2003 to present. I have a feeling your claim could turn out be significant, as was mine. So insist on the bills.