NPower gas 'sculpting'

DirectDebacle

Npower are out to confuse the issue every way they can. Now the mathematics of the overcharge are obvious and well explored on here. You have to argue the following with them.

Tell them the date you joined npower. Tell them that that is the start date of your year of 4572 with them. Tell them the date of the end that year. Tell them the amount of units over 4572 you have been charged for over that period. Tell them what you want refunding. Include an amount for compensation.

If they come back with 'tariff year' garbage (designed to confuse) tell them it is not mentioned in your terms and conditions nor in the t&c currently on their website, that you have received no notification of a 'tariff year' or its' definition. That none of their current publicity material mentions a 'tariff year' and this is something they have invented for customer services to fob you off with. Ask them when and how they notified you of a change in your billing year and for copies of such notification. Tell them they are in breach of their terms and conditions and therefore their contract. If they come out with 'standard industry' practice and all other suppliers 'sculpt' the 4572. Ask them which suppliers and how they sculpt them. I have checked the other 5 main suppliers ie Brit Gas Eon Scottish power EDF Ebico and some of their subsidiaries eg Atlantic energy. None of them 'sculpt'. Don't be sidetracked or let them confuse you. A year is a year. A 'tariff year' exits only within the walls of npower, nowhere else. If you phone (i recommend you don't) confirm it in writing. I send all my correspondence to them recorded delivery. Do research. Look at the organisations they belong to, ERA amongst others. They are in breach of virtually every guideline there is on charges and billing information.

waterstar

I was thinking of switching to Npower as they are showing up as being about £130 cheaper (most of which is bonus paid at end of 12 months if I stay that long!) but having second thoughts over the “sculpting issue” and the arrogance with which Npower seem to treat their customers - particularly their response which seems to be “oh if there was any overcharging we have compensated people by offering them lower prices for ‘secondary units’ on an ongoing basis".

Npower should be made to realise by the regulator that if they have broken a contract then it is for them to offer to compensate customers and for the customers to accept such offer of compensation not for one party to a contract to arbitrarily decide what the compensation should be and to impose it on the other party. On this same issue there is a legal concept of “contra proferentem” which may apply in this instance and which basically states that if one party drafts the contract and is the dominant party then any ambiguity will not be found in favour of that dominant party, i.e. it will be found against the party who proffered the contract.

Further the comments from Npower that much of this arises from the migration and merging of systems that they are going through is again a nonsense. If a company is undergoing a reorganisation then it is for the company to bear the costs of that reorganisation and not for it to pass the consequences and burden and costs onto its customers.

Finally this whole mess seems to have arisen from the move away from a standing charge per day/month/quarter/year and only linked to a standard charge per unit. For it seems to me that all the primary units are doing is seeking to recover that standing charge (on the assumption that annual total of “primary units” is set at such a low level that all, or virtually all, customers go above that level).

[FONT=&quot]My tuppence worth, watching from the sidelines with interest! [/FONT]

c0113tt3

directdebacle

You can say / write all of that and more, you get nowhere m8, just deadlock.

Im currently pursuing complaint / overpayment from May 2007 to end of Oct 2007 with the energy ombudsman, 6 weeks to go, I will eventually get a decision.

Cardew

RM5 wrote: »

In fact it has already been reported in the media, see
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/feb/09/householdbills.consumeraffairs
second half of article. However it seems that Mr Bramwell underestimates the scale of the problem (£27 per customer) and has been silenced with a £50 "goodwill" refund. BBC watchdog was also on the case. nPowers phone lines are incredibly busy, so it appears a lot of customers are complaining.

.

I suspect that it is the Guardian who have misunderstood, rather than Mr Bramwell underestimating.

It is perfectly possible that in his case, that he has only lost £27. That could happen if he joined NPower during the period sculpting was suspended or has very light consumption and didn't 'use up' his monthly allocation for any winter month. (for example he went abroad for several weeks during the winter). In that case he would have only been billed for a few hundred more primary units than the 4572.

However for the great majority of NPower customers they will have been charged for a great deal more primary units and robbed of a lot more than £27; and robbed is not too strong a term.

meggsy

Very interesting thread, we were surprised to receive such a large winter gas bill, much larger than any bill previously received. We signed up with npower exactly one year ago for dual fuel and their calculation was for a monthly D/D of £44 for electricity and £48 for gas, against £65 and £68 which we were previously paying. However, from 1st May they have advised a new payment of £90.00 for gas ! Beginning to think the move wasn't worth the effort !

mute_posting

waterstar wrote: »

Finally this whole mess seems to have arisen from the move away from a standing charge per day/month/quarter/year and only linked to a standard charge per unit. For it seems to me that all the primary units are doing is seeking to recover that standing charge (on the assumption that annual total of “primary units” is set at such a low level that all, or virtually all, customers go above that level).

Very true! - The only thing about it that surprises me at times is that people cant grasp that the £&p difference between tier 1 and 2 units multiplied by the number of tier 1 units is usually pence accurate to the standing charge that would apply if all were charged at tier 2.

Like you say, all but the lightest of users would find it hard to stay within tier 1 and thus benefit.

MP

RM5_2

meggsy: You should definitely complain. Since you've been with them for just a year it is particularly easy to work out how many units you were charged at the higher rate. I estimate (from 1/4/07 to 31/3/08 and given that your consumption is sufficiently high that you would have reached into tier 2 even in the flat rate summer), that tis is 6540 kWh, or 1968 more than allowed. Your accumulated primary units would have crept over 4572 in early January, so you can argue that all the overcharging took place after the tariff increase, and claim a (6.688p - 1.99p) * 1.05 * 1968 = £90 refund.

You can send a complaint to nPower using
http://www.energywatch.org.uk/help_and_advice/how_we_can_help/how_to_complain/letter_writing_wizard/index.asp
Make sure you point out that you know their sculpting schedule (otherwise they will just send you the "How we calculate your gas bill leaflet").
Theese crooks must be brought to justice and the more complaints are filed, the better.
I estimate that on average, each of their 4 million customer were robbed by about £60 and that nPower pocketed about £240 million for this scam -- half of their record profit of £544 million last year. So it is no wonder that they are trying to cling on to the bounty but they will only be able to maintain 2+2=5 for so long.

AdrianHi

I have just switched over to NPower on the basis of uSwitch telling me I can save £184 a year.

Are uSwitch correctly taking into account this "sculpting" when they work out the prices?
Am I making a mistake with this switch from Southern Electric?

mute_posting

AdrianHi wrote: »

I have just switched over to NPower on the basis of uSwitch telling me I can save £184 a year.

Are uSwitch correctly taking into account this "sculpting" when they work out the prices?
Am I making a mistake with this switch from Southern Electric?

I don't believe the comparrison sites take into account anything more than the tier1 & tier2 usage...

e.g. if you tell them you use 9000 units per year (for arguments sake) and NPower tell them their tier 1 rates are upyo 4500 units, the will compare on that basis (half on tier 1, half on tier 2)

MP

AdrianHi

mute_posting wrote: »

I don't believe the comparrison sites take into account anything more than the tier1 & tier2 usage...

e.g. if you tell them you use 9000 units per year (for arguments sake) and NPower tell them their tier 1 rates are upyo 4500 units, the will compare on that basis (half on tier 1, half on tier 2)

MP

I guess I'll just have to watch what happens to the bill over the next 12 months and change again if I'm getting ripped off by NPower. :mad: