NPower gas 'sculpting'

Cardew

AdrianHi wrote: »

I guess I'll just have to watch what happens to the bill over the next 12 months and change again if I'm getting ripped off by NPower. :mad:

As you have just switched to NPower you will not be affected by the scam on sculpting that occured last year.

Provided NPower comply with their assurance that they will not change the structure of sculpting; and importantly don't 'suspend' sculpting, you will pay for 4572 primary units.

The only difference you will notice is that next winter, when you are using more gas anyway, you will pay for more higher priced primary units.

AdrianHi

Here is the full quote I just got off the NPower site. No mention of anything other than the two tiers. Guess I'm OK though this says a saving of £126 and not uSwitches £184. This quote still gives me the best deal in the market though.




Your quote calculation in full

Your electricity product

Electricity Tariff npower Productnpower Sign Online 10 Electricity

Product TypeOnline

Unit rate per kWh
first 728kWh per year12.000p per kWh

additional kWh per year9.880p per kWh
Your gas product

Gas Tariff npower Productnpower Sign Online 10 Gas

Product TypeOnline

Unit rate per kWh
first 4572kWh per year5.960p per kWh

additional kWh per year1.631p per kWh
Your discounts and calculation

Discounts and calculation ItemAmount
Yearly cost with npower, based on your estimated electricity consumption 5565 kWh, at npower unit rates£565.22
Yearly cost with npower, based on your estimated gas consumption 23151 kWh, at npower unit rates£575.52
npower DF Elec MDD-£40.00
npower DF Gas MDD-£40.00
VAT @5%£53.04
Total£1,113.78
Electricity & gas prices valid from 18 Feb 2008.

Cardew

AdrianHi wrote: »

Here is the full quote I just got off the NPower site. No mention of anything other than the two tiers.

Electricity & gas prices valid from 18 Feb 2008.

There are only 2 tiers with NPower or the majority of companies that don't charge a daily rate(Ebico being the main exception)

The difference with NPower is they 'sculpt' their allocation of primary(tier 1) units so that you pay for more in the winter and less in the Summer - with the other companies you pay for the same amount of primary units every month of the year.

For the majority of customers it makes no difference to the overall amount you pay Npower. However a few people who used very little gas in the summer(perhaps switched their gas off altogether) will now pay more because of sculpting.

There is no doubt that Npower tier 2 gas prices are remarkedly cheap at the moment. The cynic in me feels this might be a 'loss leader' to attract people like yourself. During the Summer little gas is used anyway so any losses they suffer will not be that high.

Next Autumn might just be the time that they 'readjust' their prices when they have built up their customer base.

AdrianHi

Cardew wrote: »

There are only 2 tiers with NPower or the majority of companies that don't charge a daily rate(Ebico being the main exception)

The difference with NPower is they 'sculpt' their allocation of primary(tier 1) units so that you pay for more in the winter and less in the Summer - with the other companies you pay for the same amount of primary units every month of the year.

For the majority of customers it makes no difference to the overall amount you pay Npower. However a few people who used very little gas in the summer(perhaps switched their gas off altogether) will now pay more because of sculpting.

There is no doubt that Npower tier 2 gas prices are remarkedly cheap at the moment. The cynic in me feels this might be a 'loss leader' to attract people like yourself. During the Summer little gas is used anyway so any losses they suffer will not be that high.

Next Autumn might just be the time that they 'readjust' their prices when they have built up their customer base.

NPower were cheapest when I looked around 6-9 months ago too, just didn't pull my finger out and do the switch back then. I'll re-check prices every say 3 months and switch again if necessary since it takes so little effort on my part.

I got burnt by switching telephone call supplier a while back, talk-talk more or less miss-sold me one of their business packages. Got out of it after 3 months, I watch these things more carefully now.

RM5_2

Here is a more recent article in the guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/mar/15/householdbills.consumeraffairs
The action of Energywatch according to the article is very disappointing:

A spokesman for the consumer group confirmed it is now referring the matter to Ofgem: "They will now need to decide whether npower has breached licence condition 23 - not informing consumers of a significant change in terms and conditions."

It appears that nPower have again managed to sidetrack them to a minor side issue.
This is not a terms & conditions issue, this is overcharging in excess of the published tariff. The 4572 primary units seems to be used by all supplyers on non-standing charge tariffs, so I wonder this is required by the regulator in the aid of price transparency?
I'll write to the guardian and provide them with more details to raise the profile of this story.

Cardew

RM5 wrote: »

Here is a more recent article in the guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/mar/15/householdbills.consumeraffairs
The action of Energywatch according to the article is very disappointing:



It appears that nPower have again managed to sidetrack them to a minor side issue.
This is not a terms & conditions issue, this is overcharging in excess of the published tariff. The 4572 primary units seems to be used by all supplyers on non-standing charge tariffs, so I wonder this is required by the regulator in the aid of price transparency?
I'll write to the guardian and provide them with more details to raise the profile of this story.

A couple of points:

Firstly the setup of Energywatch means they have no ‘teeth’ and, excellent though they are, all they can do is refer a subject like this to the Regulator if the Company won’t play ball; and with this sort of money involved NPower will not co-operate.

Secondly, I am not disappointed with a ‘terms and conditions’ complain. I believe this covers a multitude of sins including an overcharging scam of this proportion. After all it was a change in terms and condition – suspending sculpting – that has caused the overcharging. It is a pity the Guardian have latched on to the £27 figure, the vast majority of customers will be a lot worse off.

Lastly you are not correct in your assumption that 4,572 is the industry standard for annual tier 1(primary) units. BG Click 5 have a figure of 670 a quarter(2,680) see:

http://www.britishgas.co.uk/pdf/Gas rates - click 5.pdf

Other firms like Ebico don’t have primary/secondary units or a daily charge.

Good luck with your letter to the Guardian. Apart from the £27 figure I cannot envisage how the suspension of the sculpting benefited any customer as Npower claim.

RM5_2

Thanks for correcting my sloppy research on the number of tier 1 units. I only checked southern-electric ans scottish power. I still think that announcing the sculpt changes in advance would have made the scam legal. I don't think you can re-define the length of a year or the energy in a kWh in the terms and conditions.

Cardew

RM5 wrote: »

Thanks for correcting my sloppy research on the number of tier 1 units. I only checked southern-electric ans scottish power. I still think that announcing the sculpt changes in advance would have made the scam legal. I don't think you can re-define the length of a year or the energy in a kWh in the terms and conditions.

Legal or illegal?

I believe that Npower are 'Bang to Rights' in that their tariff clearly states 4,572 and they have charged for a lot more.

waterstar

As I said in earlier post I am "watching from the sidelines" as I am thinking of switching to NPower.

The thought has just struck me that if "sculpting" is now cast in stone in Npower's pricing then surely customers need to think carefully about what time of the year they join, if, as I think is the case that often the customer who is a switcher is in fact a "serial switcher".

So if you joined in April and left in October, either half a year or even 18 months etc etc then you would get a smaller proportion than one half of 4572 units charged at the premium rate. Whereas if you joined in October and left in April you would get a higher proportion than one half of the 4572 units charged at the premium rate.

Obviously I have given a simplified example but it holds true for any portion of a year you choose.

RM5_2

Good point waterstar, beat them with their own stupid system. Actually, with the new sculpting, the 8 month from march to october are 'below par', ie below 8.33%, and their 2nd tier rate is currently really low. It is only the 19.3% months november to february you may want to avoid.
However, nPower have a reputation for being a bit difficult when you leave them. Expect to receive bills, reminders and debt collector letters indefinitely afterwards.