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Barclaycard - declined and retained...?

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  • NickX
    NickX Posts: 3,046 Forumite
    Relay, I am finding your posts somewhat offensive.

    I do not expect people to necessarily agree with me, but the tone of your posts is getting rather personal.

    To be clear, if this was to happen to me, I would NOT take it lying down. The retailer would know about it, and most certainly would the card company. I would complain to them in the strongest possible terms and the chances are that I would end my relationship with a company with such a poor level of customer service.

    It is clear that you believe the bank are in the right (perhaps you work for a bank and are being very loyal), but unless there is information that the OP has not told us about, this situation is not acceptable to me and I would certainly make this known.

    I hope this is clear enough for you.
  • ShelfStacker_3
    ShelfStacker_3 Posts: 2,180 Forumite
    That's not a security check. That's what happens if a card has been compromised or if its suspected fraud; you're supposed to take the card off the customer if it's safe to do so. As it's your card, I would be both worried and annoyed. Complain, or even go to Watchdog if you must.
  • CopperPlate_2
    CopperPlate_2 Posts: 1,508 Forumite
    Certainly seems to be a lot of misinformed opinion here regarding the 'rights' cardholders have. If a retailer is instructed by a bank, having called them for authorisation/verification, to retain a card then they are obliged to do so. Having been in the position at my previous jobs the bank staff give you no indication as to the reasons for the decline - often just giving you a 'code reference' to give to the customer who can then quote it back to the bank staff. Often it was for something really basic like the cardholder not having activated their card before using it, non-response to letters/statements being returned because the customer had moved without telling their credit card company, etc.

    Yes, it's can embarrass the customer to have their card retained, but the staff in the shop aren't told the reasons for it so there's little point shouting, screaming or creating a scene with them. For all they are aware the card being presented could've been stolen (another reason the bank will tell you to retain and destroy). Generally, if the customer wanted to speak to the bank I'd have handed the phone over but, again, the bank staff at the authorisation centre can't validate who they're speaking to and so will just repeat what the retailer was told.

    Generally, if the card is declined and the bank doesn't authorise it on the telephone, then the card is returned to the customer with the reference code for them to quote later. The bank usually only requests retention if there is some doubt that the person using the card is genuine/doubts about card fraud, etc.
  • Chris2000
    Chris2000 Posts: 318 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Can't find the Barclaycard T&C but the Lloyds TSB credit card T&C say: 10.2 Cards and Cheques belong to us and must be returned immediately if we ask you to do so, or if you die, or are made bankrupt. Anyone acting for us may recover or retain them.

    I don't know how the retailer would prove that they were acting for the bank, rather than acting for themselves with the intention of taking the card straight to the nearest cashpoint - after getting the PIN from a CCTV recording.

    I think Visa used to have a rule that retained cards must be be cut in half. Maybe they still do, although most transactions are now authorised electronically so there's less chance of a retained card being intercepted and misused.

    The banks' fraud detection systems seem to throw up false positives quite regularly. But I've never had a card retained yet, only referred. If a retailer did want to retain my card I'd still prefer them to cut it up.
  • PROLIANT
    PROLIANT Posts: 6,396 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    steveing64 wrote: »
    I used to have a terminal in my pub and i think it was in the agreement that if they asked you to hold on to a card you could as long as no memebers of your staff are put at risk.

    If i remebr right you would get paid extra for doing this

    Not sure but the card belongs to the card company so if they want back they can do

    bye the way i agree it is not very nice and i am not sticking up for them

    The staff get £50 per card retained.
    Since when has the world of computer software design been about what people want? This is a simple question of evolution. The day is quickly coming when every knee will bow down to a silicon fist, and you will all beg your binary gods for mercy.
  • NickX wrote: »
    It is YOUR property and they have no right to retain the card. In fact I would have considered calling the police to the shop in view of this being theft.

    I;m certainly don't defend Barclaycard for this, but I don't see it is theft. There is no dishonest intention, for a start, on behalf of the shop.
    ...much enquiry having been made concerning a gentleman, who had quitted a company where Johnson was, and no information being obtained; at last Johnson observed, that 'he did not care to speak ill of any man behind his back, but he believed the gentleman was an attorney'.
  • PROLIANT
    PROLIANT Posts: 6,396 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    NickX wrote: »
    I don't really understand this at all, but it sounds disgraceful to me.

    The advice is always NEVER to let your card out of your sight. In restaurants you should insist that you watch the waiter process the card so there is no opportunity for anyone to skim the card.

    For the shop to retain the card sounds criminal to me. It is YOUR property and they have no right to retain the card. In fact I would have considered calling the police to the shop in view of this being theft.

    The calls you have made to Barclaycard are not satisfactory. I sounds as though they have tried to give you the "brush" off. If they are complicit to this, then I would complain in the strongest possible terms, demand compensation and threaten them with the ombudsman.

    How can they advice NEVER to let the card out of your sight, then advice a retailer to keep hold of your card ?? Outrageous :mad:

    The card is the property of the credit card company, and so is the money, you are given "credit" in the form of an account where you can borrow the money up to an agreed credit limit, I know it can seem very embarrassing at the time but the staff are contractually obliged to conduct situations like this in a manner that does not draw attention to the fact there is a problem, if they do and you feel like an inch tall in front of all of the other customers you are in your right complain to the company head office name and shame the staff member. I would also ask for a signed receipt for the card as well.
    Since when has the world of computer software design been about what people want? This is a simple question of evolution. The day is quickly coming when every knee will bow down to a silicon fist, and you will all beg your binary gods for mercy.
  • NickX
    NickX Posts: 3,046 Forumite
    I;m certainly don't defend Barclaycard for this, but I don't see it is theft. There is no dishonest intention, for a start, on behalf of the shop.

    OK, I am sure that you are correct and that there is no dishonest intention in this case.

    However, what is stopping a "dodgy" backstreet retailer informing an unsuspecting customer that their card had been declined and that they needed to retain the card. Once the customer has left the shop, they have all the details to spend the rest of the day doing a nice bit of internet shopping.

    As you have probably gathered, I would not be leaving my card with a retailer without something of a "fight" - I would definitely be having it out with the Credit Card company to find out what was going on BEFORE leaving the shop without my card.
  • NickX
    NickX Posts: 3,046 Forumite
    PROLIANT wrote: »
    if they do and you feel like an inch tall in front of all of the other customers you are in your right complain to the company head office name and shame the staff member. I would also ask for a signed receipt for the card as well.

    Actually on the contrary, I would not feel an inch tall because I would know that this was no fault of my own.

    In fact I would make my points rather loudly precisely so that other customers can hear what is going on and decide for themselves if they really wish to be using this particular retailer.

    Getting the signed receipt is an excellent idea, and if I really did have to leave my card with the retailer I would do exactly this.
  • CopperPlate_2
    CopperPlate_2 Posts: 1,508 Forumite
    Oh dear. You sound like my idea of a 'customer from Hell'. Thinking that you know your 'rights' when, in actual fact, you don't. The retailer is simply acting on the instructions of the issuing bank/financial provider and has been alluded to already, it's their card and their money. They can ask/do what they like. What good is there is in humiliating the retail staff - and yourself into the bargain, because please, people who 'make a lot of noise' in shops, really DO humiliate themselves. You could please yourself and stand and shout all you liked. If the bank told me to retain, retain I would, and you would be leaving empty-handed, or with a Police escort if you continued to shout your mouth off. How is the retailer to know that you're not just an elaborate fraudster - you know they do exist - who tries to pass himself off as the genuine 'affronted' customer by creating a scene.

    Yes, the situation described where a 'dodgy backstreet retailer' might feign the declining of a card/referral, and make the 'pretend' phone call to the merchant authorisation service, and then pretend that the card has to be retained, and then go on to use the card fraudulently - granted - it might happen. But then I think there'd be a pretty good line of suspicion running right back there if it did happen. And, lets be frank, if you're going to use a 'dodgy backstreet retailer' (who incidentally will likely have access to the audit facility of the PDQ machine he/she has just swiped your card on and as such should be able to access your full card number, expiry date, etc from that anyway) - aren't you just ASKING for your card to be cloned/skimmed in the first place?
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