Has anyone had any problems refusing a carrier bag.

Moggles_2

Originally Posted by angelatgraceland
Slowly, we will catch up with Ireland - The English are a stubborn lot!

It would be nice to think so, but I suspect most consumers will carry on using plastic carriers as long as they're handed out for free, whether this be stubbornness, laziness or plain inertia.

To be fair, Irish shoppers didn't mend their ways voluntarily. In the Republic of Ireland, disposable plastic carriers have been virtually taxed out of existence. Eire introduced an eco-tax on plastic bags back in 2002 - a move which reduced bag use overnight by a massive 94%. What's more, in the first 5 months, 3.5 million euros in extra revenue was raised for environmental projects.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2205419.stm

I don't think charging for carrier bags is the complete solution, but I do think it would help reduce litter, not to mention the amount of refuse going to landfill.

geordie_joe

angelatgraceland wrote: »

This is saving companies a fortune in bags so it really shouldnt be a problem.Slowly, we will catch up with Ireland-the English are a stubborn lot!

THE IRISH CARRIER BAG TAX

A 15 cents a bag tax (raised to 22 cents in 2007) was introduced in the Irish Republic in 2002. It has reduced the number of bags stores hand out but that has been canceled out by a number of unintended consequences.


Increased use of plastic in Irish Republic

The Irish Government claims the use of plastic carrier bags there has declined by 90 per cent. DEFRA says 80 per cent of plastic carrier bags are re-used at least once in the home. That is why the reduction in carrier bags in Ireland has been replaced by an increase in the use of heavier gauge bin liners, refuse sacks and nappy disposal bags.


Increased retail theft and administration costs

The Irish Government claims retailers welcome a plastic bag tax because they can make more profit by not having to purchase bags to give away free. But retailers now suffer tax administration costs and increased theft.


No evidence of litter reduction

The original premise for the Irish tax was to reduce litter but UK litter surveys show plastic bags comprise less than one per cent of all litter. It is simply not possible for a plastic bag tax to have any significant effect on litter.


No change in waste going to landfill

Those who proposed a bag tax said it would reduce landfill. But the UK Industry Council for Packaging in the Environment (INCPEN) and HM Treasury state that plastic carrier bags comprise around 0.3 per cent of all household waste.


Switching to paper is worse for the environment

Supporting evidence has shown that paper bags have a higher environmental impact. They use more water and produce more greenhouse gases in manufacture.

Furthermore, paper bags are between four and five times more voluminous than plastic, resulting in an equivalent increase in the number of deliveries to store. This led to increased road miles, added congestion and vehicle emissions. These bags are also four to five times more expensive than plastic, leading to a significant cost increase borne primarily by high-street stores.

Moggles_2

geordie_joe wrote: »

THE IRISH CARRIER BAG TAX

A 15 cents a bag tax (raised to 22 cents in 2007) was introduced in the Irish Republic in 2002. It has reduced the number of bags stores hand out but that has been cancelled out by a number of unintended consequences.

Increased use of plastic in Irish Republic

The Irish Government claims the use of plastic carrier bags there has declined by 90 per cent. DEFRA says 80 per cent of plastic carrier bags are re-used at least once in the home. That is why the reduction in carrier bags in Ireland has been replaced by an increase in the use of heavier gauge bin liners, refuse sacks and nappy disposal bags.


Increased retail theft and administration costs

The Irish Government claims retailers welcome a plastic bag tax because they can make more profit by not having to purchase bags to give away free. But retailers now suffer tax administration costs and increased theft.


No evidence of litter reduction

The original premise for the Irish tax was to reduce litter but UK litter surveys show plastic bags comprise less than one per cent of all litter. It is simply not possible for a plastic bag tax to have any significant effect on litter.


No change in waste going to landfill

Those who proposed a bag tax said it would reduce landfill. But the UK Industry Council for Packaging in the Environment (INCPEN) and HM Treasury state that plastic carrier bags comprise around 0.3 per cent of all household waste.

Yet, you yourself observed (#12 above)

Originally Posted by geordie joe
About 8 years ago my local KwikSave used to charge 1p for the flimsy carrier bags and 3p for the stronger ones. People, including me, used to reuse the bags. They would get the shopping home and fold up the bags and stick them in their coat pocket and reuse them next time.

Then it got taken over by Somerfield and they started giving away carrier bags for free. Now nobody reuses their carrier bags, why should they bother sticking the bags in their coat pocket after they've got their shoping home when they will get another free one next time.

I don't think charging for carrier bags is the complete solution, but I do think it will help a lot.

I rest my case.

geordie_joe

Moggles wrote: »

Yet, you yourself observed (#12 above)

I rest my case.

The difference is Ireland has taxed the carrier bags to the point where people stopped buying then. But increased buying other types of plastic bags to use in place of the carrier bags.

I would rather see them charged for, but only to the point where people use them wisely.

Moggles_2

Fair enough, GJ

The problem with leaving it to the big store chains to charge for plastic carriers (as opposed to a compulsory eco-tax) is that, 6 years after the Irish experiment started, most have still not got around to it :rolleyes:

Btw, I'm not advocating the use of paper carriers in place of plastic ones. I'd like to see a charge made for all disposable carriers. That way we might get Tom, !!!!!! & Harriet to use permanent shopping bags, just as everyone did not so very long ago.

The Irish experience and your Somerfield/Kwiksave case shows that a 1p-2p charge per bag is all it takes to persuade most shoppers to give up their carrier bag habit.

geordie_joe

Moggles wrote: »

Fair enough, GJ

The problem with leaving it to the big store chains to charge for plastic carriers is that,
6 years after the Irish experiment started, most have still not got around to it :rolleyes:

I thought the Irish government put a tax on the bags so the shops had to pass it on to their customer. I didn't think it was a voluntary thing.

Moggles wrote: »

Btw, I'm not advocating the use of paper carriers in place of plastic ones. I'd like to see a charge made for all disposable carriers. That way we might get Tom, !!!!!! & Harriet to use permanent shopping bags, just as everyone did not so very long ago.

The Irish experience and your Somerfield/Kwiksave case shows that a 1p-2p charge per bag is all it takes to persuade most shoppers to give up their carrier bag habit.

I agree with that but not trying to get rid of carrier bags completely.

My reason for this is most carriers bags, that go into landfill go in with rubbish inside them. People use the free carrier bags as bin liners and to put other rubbish in. If we get rid of the carrier bags people will buy more bin liners to put put the rubbish in. The same amount of plastic bags will go into land fill, but they won't have been used to carry shopping home first, they will have been bought specifically to throw away.

I think we should set the price, or tax on carrier bags, at a price where people value them and use them as many times as possible before putting rubbish in them. Not charging so much that people stop using them and start buying more bin liners instead.

Quasar

I agree that the shop staff have to follow policy. If they are told to insist on giving out carrier bags, that's what they have to do. So, instead of having a go at powerless shop assistants or checkout operators, we should politely request to see a manager and explain to them our position. Ok not always feasible when you are holding a queue at, say, Tesco, but we must be heard by the right people.

I haven't yet encountered problems when refusing a carrier bag, but I surely won't be MADE to have one if I don't want it. I'd complain to the supervisor or manager, that the customer is always right...

Savvy_Sue

BTW, Wilkinsons now have a sign up saying "We'll ask if you need a carrier bag. Please make sure you use it more than once." And yes, the chap on the checkout did ask everyone in the queue, and had no problem not forcing one on me!

Margaret54

Oh boy you would need the patience of a saint these days wouldn't you?
The silly things some people come off with because you are stating you simply don't need/want a carrier bag. I hate to see these bags blown into trees and all over the place which have been carelessly thrown away too. I know of someone who had a repair bill as a p.c.b had got into his exhaust pipe. There will always be people who just don't care a jot, and others like ourselves who really do.
I remember over 30 years ago our wee neighbour was a young Mum and i would see a carrier bag which she had washed:) bless her hanging out on her whirly washing line which was full of her washing:T and every week a carrrier bag was hung out too. I think she was very money saving even then.

Moggles_2

Margaret54 wrote: »

I hate to see these bags blown into trees and all over the place which have been carelessly thrown away too. I know of someone who had a repair bill as a p.c.b had got into his exhaust pipe.

They're a hazard for wildlife too (As if our native fauna and flora hadn't enough man-made problems to cope with)

Apart from anything else, I'm so tired of retrieving other people's discarded bags from the trees in my garden. I've better things to do with my time.

I'd like to see a charge made for all disposable carriers. Experience shows that 1p-2p per bag is all it takes to persuade most shoppers to give up their carrier bag habit.