Absolutely FUMING with Abbey

ShelfStacker_3

dunstonh wrote: »

FOS will laugh at it.

Dear FOS, I wish to complain about Abbey because they complied with money laundering requirements. I want a load of compensation.

The FOS is there to deal with genuine complaints like mis-sales or breaches of T&C. Not the personality of the individual cashier. Going to the FOS on a complaint like this is just going to speed up the removal of the FOS as a free complaint service.

And even that's ignoring that you have to have exhausted the financial institution's own internal complaints procedures first.

I honestly don't see where the problem is here, anyway, it's just a question. Are people really that paranoid?

Meltdown_2

ShelfStacker wrote: »

I honestly don't see where the problem is here, anyway, it's just a question.

Therein lies the problem, I believe.

There is the 'corporate' viewpoint that they are
a) complying with government legislation;
b) complying with their industry guidelines;
c) complying with their own internal guidelines;
d) protecting their customers from financial harm.
If all the above were completely true, and covered ALL the interaction with their customers, then one could sympathise with this corporate viewpoint.

Then there is the 'consumer' viewpoint - or rather, there isn't!
There are probably two main 'consumer' (customer) viewpoints - though the precise number is probably much larger.
There are those who do not mind telling others their business (the "if you have nothing to hide" tendency). And there are those who DO mind - either because it is simply their business, or it is a cultural or upbringing thing, or because they object to an ever-increasing state (since ultimately that is what it is) interference in their daily life.
These people are not "paranoid". They do not object to undergoing sensible, appropriate, and proportionate checks on their ID (or transactions). But they do object to nonsensical, inappropriate or disproportionate actions.

There's the rub ...

Some quotes to consider :

"Like never before we all need to be able to assert our identity with ease and confidence. Collectively, our ability to do so is of significant economic and social consequence. But first and foremost our identity belongs to us, no one else. The potential of any mass ID system such as ID Cards therefore lies in the extent to which it is created by consumers for consumers."

"I have had the privilege of listening to a very wide range of opinion. But Government departments and agencies, private sector companies, regulators, special interest groups and technology providers were all united on one thing. The future of identity lies in putting the consumer first. For many organisations that calls for radical new thinking."

"An ID system built primarily to deliver high levels of assurance for consumers and to command their trust has little in common with one inspired mainly by the ambitions of its owner."

These are quotes from
Sir James Crosby, Chair of the Govt-financed Independent ID Assurance Review (and Deputy Chair of the FSA, and former Chief Exec. of HBOS boss) - March 2008

Smiley_Mum

I withdrew £700 years ago as I was going on holiday and wanted it to change into dollars. Straight away I was asked what I was wanting the money for. There was a bit of a pause, I was just really surprised, thought it was rather cheeky of them to ask, but I ended saying what I wanted it for. I'd never had it happen before.

Meltdown_2

Smiley_Mum wrote: »

I withdrew £700 years ago as I was going on holiday and wanted it to change into dollars. Straight away I was asked what I was wanting the money for. There was a bit of a pause, I was just really surprised, thought it was rather cheeky of them to ask, but I ended saying what I wanted it for. I'd never had it happen before.

It seems to vary from bank to bank, branch to branch, from cashier to cashier, and from customer to customer.
I fairly often (but not 'regularly' before someone starts down that road) withdraw £1000 or more (without notice) from bank cashiers and don't recall being asked what I want it for.
(If I ever was asked they would get such a withering look they'd never ask again! :D)
Either I look 100% honest & totally above suspicion (the law relates to that, after all) or it is connected somehow to my still having a good level of funds in the account - I can't easily see what else it could be.

Any bank employees care to clarify on what grounds they treat customers differently regarding cash transactions?

dunstonh

Any bank employees care to clarify on what grounds they treat customers differently regarding cash transactions?

Im no longer with a bank but obviously need to keep up to date with money laundering regs. Banks will have their own floor limits on amounts. Unusual transactions or even regular transactions can require questioning. The questions if done ideally would be in a conversation style.

I reported someone once for making frequent cash payments into his credit card. His occupation didnt match someone that should be handling so much cash. Tax and benefits fraud also comes under money laundering regs. So its not just money laundering itself any more. In his case I suspect it wasnt money laundering but tax evasion.

Also, as for the personality of the individual, I was once involved in a fraud where someone who seemed very friendly and knowing did some transactions over a period of 2-3 months and got known to the staff visually so we didnt have to check his signature any more as we knew it was him. He then switched to a stolen cheque book to make withdrawals on another account. The bank lost thousands over a period of a few weeks. When it was investigated it was found that flaws had happened at every stage. His own account was set up with a fake name. The staff member had let him off with not enough ID because he seemed genuine and the staff member was fairly new to the job and the cashiers had fallen for his charm and personality and became complecent because they thought they knew him.

Whilst you as a customer may not see things like that as you only look at your position, do remember the bank staff see a lot more and many of the rules in place today have stopped a lot of the old frauds that used to take place. Yes, its an inconvenience to the genuine customers but also remember that if you are genuine you have nothing to hide. But dont blame the staff.

Just think what comments you would be posting on this board if your account was emptied by a fraudster. No doubt you would complain that the bank didnt do enough to stop it.

gatita

It has been very interesting to read the differing views. I see it is mainly people working in finance that agreed with the interrogation I got.
I would like to point out, I did not make ANY mention of wanting compensation at any time! I asked for help in sending a letter of COMPLAINT nothing more nothing less.

I would also like to point out I have absolutely NOTHING to hide, but I DO object to this invasion of my privacy. As mentioned on here, there seem to be no exact rules laid out as to HOW each bank carries out their checks. I still say it is ludicrous to ask a customer what they want the money for! Firstly it has NOTHING to do with anyone but me. Secondly IF I was a money launderer or drugs dealer, I would hardly tell the cashier when asked "oh its for 2 oz. cocaine, " would I? So, in my opinion this question IS ridiculous.

Just one last comment, this form of interrogation does not happen in any of the EU countries I have lived and visited.

dunstonh

I would also like to point out I have absolutely NOTHING to hide, but I DO object to this invasion of my privacy.

Perhaps your MP would be a better choice to write to. After all its the Govt and the EU that sets most of the rules.

As mentioned on here, there seem to be no exact rules laid out as to HOW each bank carries out their checks.

Its a pain with many of the "rules" in financial services. The regulators dont tend to issue rules that have to be followed. They issue guidelines which often can be interpreted in different ways. There is also risk assessment by the businesses. i.e. is it worth spending £20 million pounds to implement something that may only save £1 million of loss.

Often the only way you find out if you have done it right or wrong is when the FSA fine another company for doing it wrong. You then see how they were doing it and make sure you are not doing it the same.

I still say it is ludicrous to ask a customer what they want the money for! Firstly it has NOTHING to do with anyone but me. Secondly IF I was a money launderer or drugs dealer, I would hardly tell the cashier when asked "oh its for 2 oz. cocaine, " would I? So, in my opinion this question IS ridiculous.

Correct. However, the problem is that the banks have to be seen to be doing something. If the cashier doesnt ask any questions then they have no protection from prosecution. In reality, it is not so much the answer given but whether they had to think about the answer and were they evasive. Being evasive means you are more likely to be reported. If you were cynical, it is more likely to catch out the self employed tax evader or benefits fraudster than a seasoned criminal. However, a seasoned criminal is less likely to use one of the retail banks because of the checks that take place nowadays.

Just one last comment, this form of interrogation does not happen in any of the EU countries I have lived and visited.

The money laundering regs are EU wide. However, regulation of banks and financial companies is higher in the UK than most other EU countries. I know that the NR incident doesnt give you that impression but the FSA does have a tendency to focus on the micro management of small things and has an amazing ability to ignore the things that really impact on the consumer. They will fine a company millions of pounds for not following money laundering regs (as has happened).

Ironically, I wouldnt be surprised if the FSA knew more about NRs money laundering check process and the branch level processes than it knew about NRs business model and financial position.

[Deleted User]

Meltdown wrote: »

Any bank employees care to clarify on what grounds they treat customers differently regarding cash transactions?

I'm only speaking for what I would do, and what I ve been told to do at Abbey - and I must stress this it is not my choice ....

It seems to vary from bank to bank, branch to branch, from cashier to cashier, and from customer to customer.
I fairly often (but not 'regularly' before someone starts down that road) withdraw £1000 or more (without notice) from bank cashiers and don't recall being asked what I want it for.

Well Abbey only offers 500 a day over counter, a mate works for natwest i do believe (could be wrong) he told me once you could get 1200 without notice or ID, so each bank different, they set their limit, again due to safe sizes

(If I ever was asked they would get such a withering look they'd never ask again! :D)

Then I wouldnt give you the money unless you answered the question (again I stress not my choice, and would report you when you d left the branch)

Either I look 100% honest & totally above suspicion (the law relates to that, after all) or it is connected somehow to my still having a good level of funds in the account - I can't easily see what else it could be.

Again, dont want anyone taking it personnaly so dont want any abuse back please thanks lol

sparrabeth

I personally wouldn't mind being asked. I'd rather a minor inconvenience than a major loss of cash!

My sister came to visit me a couple of weeks ago and stayed in a hotel with her OH (a rather nice hotel - they were treating themselves to a kid-free weekend). When she returned home, she got a call from HSBC asking if she had been in Leeds recently. Rather than being offended, she said that she had, and asked why. They'd noticed that a large amount of money had been requested from her card at a hotel and just wanted to check that it was a genuine transaction before they released it.

Good customer service if you ask me!

gatita

Just thought I would let you know I received a rather grovelling letter of apology from the manager of my local bank....... however I am still not satisfied as I STILL say that the question "what do you want the money for" should never have been asked. Its a perfectly STUPID question, if anyone really was guilty of wrong doing they would hardly let a cashier know what it was.