Need to get this off my chest....

So_Sad_Angel

Hi Guys.

Do you think ITBS may have nodded off whilst hanging on the phone?

JPS29

Update in 2 mins just gonna make a coffee. Think it's good news:j

Toon_Dave

InTheBrownStuff wrote: »

Update in 2 mins just gonna make a coffee. Think it's good news:j

Maybe more redbull and expressos are in order!??

AmIdone4?

Lovin the banter........:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Got2change

.........just to wish you Good Luck.......... I am so impressed with the change in you and the plans you have made.

........waiting for news...........

JPS29

Ok, Thanks everyone for the crossed fingers and the cramps:beer:

Rang the number, no queue!!!!

Answered by a man who sounded very "official" and i began to think I was doomed.

Gave them my details and he confirmed that my "debt" had now gone up with daily interest to £14593.85 (going up £2.81 a day)

Told him briefly my situation but didn't go into any detail at this point re the failed business, just that it failed, i was hoping to repay this tax bill from profits from the business and obv now I'm not in a position to.

Explained I wanted to fully repay this debt rather than go BR but equally didn't want to go through the pain and expense of starting up as a taxi driver only for them to make me BR 2 months down the line.

Once i had explained this he seemed more receptive and understanding to my problems. He explained that it would be impossible to agree a repayment programme without an income and expenditure first, as even I would not know what i could realistically afford, but accepted that as it could be 2 months or so before I actually get through the courses/checks etc that i couldn't provide this yet.

He also mentioned that my come April i will have to send in my return for 07/08 to get an accurate figure. I didn't even realise that this had 07/08 on it!!!! £3247,86 of this £14k debt is from 07/8 first overdue payment on account. I was employed in my limited company, paying paye and NI so I think this may actually go down (will check this as i may be wrong and still have to pay this anyway, or tax on drawings or summat, aaarrgghhh need my accountant so much now and shes off)

Anyway regardless of this I will now the full debt after 5th April when i have filed my returns (via my accountant) This may go up or down and i will keep you posted.

i agreed that i didn't know what i would be in a position to pay 6 months down the line but could commit to paying £500 this month, to show my sincerity in clearing this debt, and possibly the same for the next 6 months, then i will be in a position to come to a better formal arrangement.

He said in light of this he would freeze the account for a month, pay the £500 by Monday, and then ring up the end of April to discuss further and update them.

He did say that as long as i kept in contact with them and didn't bury my head in the sand this would definitely work in my favour. He also said that he didn't think it likely that i would be made BR as i was willing to pay the debt, the way he put it was even if they did take court action again an I and E would be used to determine what I could realistically pay.

I asked for his name and you're not going to believe this. I got a FULL name, not just a Mr smith etc, I asked for a direct dial to him and got it too.

This way i will just deal with this one person who seems to be onside and hopefully resolve this amicably.

I hope the above makes sense and I'm sorry if I rambled on, (is this one of the longest posts ever, wooo the caffeine is kicking in!!)

Any thoughts re the above??

Have i missed anything?

Cheers

rog2

Hi, in the brown stuff - Sorry that I 'missed' your thread, and thanks to tf for bringing it to my attention.

I was in very similar circumstances to you. Seven years ago, I changed my business from a Limited Company (where I had employed up to 8 people) to a 'Sole Trader' status, for basically the same reasons that Walter outlined - the Industry, which my business served (the Meat Processing Industry) had suffered through BSE, SVD and cheap imports from the new EC countries, and business had virtually ground to a stanstill.
After more than 20 years in the same line of business, I, possibly naively, thought that I could carry on and make a decent living as a 'Sole trader'.
My only debts, from the Limited Company, were in unpaid (estimated) VAT and Corporation Tax, which i was assured would 'die' with the Company.
However - I reckoned without the tenacity of the VAT man (or, in my case, woman) and, rather stupidly, signed a statement accepting personal responsibility for over £14,000 of 'VAT' carried over from my Limited Company.
I hasten to state that, at the time, I was being very badly advised, and was unaware of the existence of forums such as this one.
I carried on trading for about five years, but this VAT 'debt' was eating away most of what I was earning, and I was not drawing a salary myself - nor could I afford the services of a decent accountant. In fact, the only thing that kept me going was the 'promise' of a light at the end of the tunnel - I was chasing two very large (£1m + ) projects, that, if they had materialised, would have turned my 'problems' into history.
Fact is, though, they did not materialise.
Enter the VAT man's, then, cousin - the Inland Revenue. They, steadfastly, rejected my Self Assessment statements for three years, insisting that I must be earning more than I declared, whereas, in truth, I was being subsidised by my wife's earnings as a nurse. The end result of this was a 'fabricated' Inland Revenue' assessment of £26,000 for unpaid tax.
I, too, went to them, to ask for help - the only help they 'gave' me was an interview with a woman, at the local collection centre who recited, almost 'parrot fashion' the document 'how to fill in your self assessment form'. When I asked for help with the actual accounts, they told me it was not their responsibility (true) and that I should re-submit with accounts that suited their requirements.
In the meantime, daily penalties, and fines were being added to the 'account' bringing, within six months, the figure to over £65,000.00.
I was visited by one of their 'assessors' who actually agreed with me that I did not have the 'trappings' of one who earned enough to generate that kind of tax bill - yet one month after his visit, I was served with a Statutory Demand - by which time the 'bill' had risen to £80k.
I did try to negociate - the HMRC (Inland Revenue) solicitor details were supplied on the SD - but they, simply, did not want to know. Consequently, and some 6-8 weeks after being served with the SD, I was served with the petition for my bankruptcy, at the Royal Courts of Justice (High Court).
At the end of the day, I have to say that this was, probably, the best thing that has happened in the whole story. Yes, I have had to go through the hassle of buying back my BI (and that still is not fully resolved - 18 months after my bankruptcy).
I have learned many things, through this whole process, but my research also shows that HMRC are, by far, the largest contributor to 'creditor petitioned bankruptcies' in the UK. This is, in my opinion, because they are not 'cost orientated' - they know that there are companies, often multi-national, out there who are adept at 'playing the situation' and can, through creative accounting, fleece the Country of millions in tax revenue. However, these companies are clever - they know the loopholes - so the Taxman will, in order to show that he is 'doing his job' go for the smaller man who, invariably, does not have the resources to fight.
An 'interesting' point, to come out of this, is that, although the VAT and Inland Revenue were already fully integrated at the time of my bankruptcy, I had a visit, almost two months after having been declared bankrupt, by a person from HMRC (VAT) who attempted to 'serve' me with a Statutory Declaration for the 'outstanding' £14k VAT bill.
I'm sorry, brown stuff, if my post appears to be more of a 'rant' against HMRC - in fact I wish you well with any negociation - all I can say is that, in my case, the only negociation that they would enter into with me was dependent on my 'paying' their bill upfront, and then attempting to 'reclaim' any tax paid, through negociation.
I am, in spite of my experiences, well on the road to starting again, in business. They do say, don't they, that 'Experience is a Dear School, yet Fools will Learn No Other'. I remember discussing my situation, with a friend, ten years ago, when I was looking to change from a 'Limited Company' status to 'Sole Trader' because I was unhappy with the 'Companies House' obligations. He told me to stick with the 'Limited Company' status, and that I would be glad of it one day.
Oh for the gift of 'Hindsight'.
Good luck with your 'negociations' - You have been given some excellent advice, here, and I wish you well in the future.

JPS29

Rog2,

Thanks so much for going in so much detail.

Hopefully i am in a better situation as my VAT debts are all in the LTD co name and i haven't and wont sign anything transferring them to a personal debt.

I did also mention, once I had him onside, that I owed 43k in vat and as a result would prob be winding up company, would this affect their lenience in allowing a payment programme. His reply was that these are company debts and SHOULD die with the limited company.

Hopefully I will be able to resolve this without going BR. Glad to hear you are on the road to starting your own business again. My aim in this is to be a taxi driver for 1-2 years, then start my own firm. No Multi Million pound aims just a decent living.

Thanks again, will keep you all posted.

Need another coffee, I'm a caffeine addict!!!

So_Sad_Angel

[I can't tell you how low I feel, I GENUINELY believed my business would be starting up again and I would be in a pickle for a few months, but overall OK.

I am at my wits end, don't know what to do. I am ashamed to admit that at 28 years old and a grown man I am in tears here now with worry.
I really haven't come on here for sympathy, just to get it off my chest.

Will keep you all updated, good luck to anyone also facing financial problems, hope all turns out OK for you.[/quote]


Hi ITBS ..this is a quote from your post a week or so ago!! (sorry to remind you) but can I congratulate you on your amazing drive & achievement!!

What a fantastic turnaround!!! WELL DONE - :beer:

You are a star & I hope you`re family are so proud of you!!!

Go for it!!

Angelxx:j

AmIdone4?

Rog2,

Thanks for sharing that, that is extremely bad luck that 14K along with bad advice, with additional problems (and pure rip off techniques from IR (I've heard of this but have no personal experience)) turned into 80K!:mad:

I think it goes to show though, that being informed (ie. support of this site or others like it and access to free financial services), being pro-active using that acquired knowledge and heading the problem off early as possible (if you have the luxury of being informed and if you're have a reasonable person on the other end of the line / to deal with ie IR/HMRC) and generally lucky that everything pans out (ie. IR inspectors who realise that you're lifestyle doesn't match your tax bill:mad:, actually tells or gets heard by their bosses??????), that is is much easier to resolve situations.

But as you say (well, sort of said) What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Glad to hear things are on the up and up for you now;)

Cheers All the Best