TV Licence article Discussion

Cornucopia

mimi1980 wrote: »

Hi does anyone know if I need a TV licence to watch iplayer in my office which is covered by a licence and a hotel also covered?

No, you don't need your own Licence. If you are in a location that has a Licence, every person there is covered by it.

I cant get a tv signal at home so I dont have a licence I have only watched on catch up until they changed the law. I dont want to buy a licence just to watch eastenders the only programme I watched not watched it since the change but wondering if there is a way round it

There are a number of potential loopholes in the new law...

- You can take your phone/tablet/laptop to a location where there is a Licence and Internet access and download any content from the BBC there to take away and watch later in any location, Licensed or not.

- You can ask your Licensed neighbour if s/he would mind if you placed your phone/tablet/laptop on their premises whilst it downloads content for you. You can still use your own wifi.

- Whilst (I assume*) it is still illegal, TVL does not enforce against access taking place in public spaces or in cars, so you could conceivably download content there.

Batch downloading is made simpler by using "get_iplayer" - a third-party utility that (for the time being) can download content from iPlayer automatically and saves programs to your computer as MP4 files. It is presently legal to use this where you are covered by a TV Licence. Whether it is illegal to use without a Licence remains unknown because the detail of the new rules does not seem to be available yet. (Extra Brownie points for anyone who can find it).

(*) BBC/TVL talk about the concept of a Licensed Place, but this is a term of their own invention and does not originate in the law, so it's possible that watching/downloading TV in a public space, outdoors or in a car are things that the law is uncertain on, trapped in a slight case of anachronistic paralysis - i.e. it was written before those things were popular.

Cornucopia

A couple of recent developments show that TVL is acting unlawfully...

1. BBC/TVL have stated that their home searches (the ones without a Warrant) are not a breach of the Right to Privacy because they are consensual. I have now asked them in 4 or 5 different ways what "consensual" means in detail, but they have refused to say. Case law pertaining to the Right to Privacy says that any "rules" have to be Specific, Explicit, Clear and Understandable, which cannot be satisfied if the BBC publish no information. Hence unlawful.

2. PACE Code C 3.22 requires that prior to a non-Police interview under caution in someone's home, they must be told that they can cease the interview at any time (without prejudice) and can tell the interviewer to leave the premises. TVL do not do this, hence unlawful.

3. In PACE Code C 3.22 it states in passing that the presence of a non-Police interviewer in someone's home requires "informed consent". TVL do not operate on an informed consent basis (in fact, misinformation is more their thing). Hence unlawful.

If the other location mentioned in paragraph 3.21 is any place or premises for which the interviewer requires the person’s informed consent to remain, for example, the person’s home, then the references that the person is ‘not obliged to remain’ and that they ‘may leave at will’ mean that the person may also withdraw their consent and require the interviewer to leave.

PACE Code C Section 3.22

AndyWernham

Does a laptop in a university bedroom still count as a mobile device if it is plugged in to a cabled internet connection, rather than Wi-Fi?

DavidP24

AndyWernham wrote: »

Does a laptop in a university bedroom still count as a mobile device if it is plugged in to a cabled internet connection, rather than Wi-Fi?

Hey Andy

If you use the Internet to watch BBC iPlayer then you DO need a licence, if on the other hand you only use it to access netflix or other NON LIVE transmission.

TVL define LIVE to be as it is being transmitted, even if abroad, I think there may be some legal proof of that but it is what they say.

If a student in such boarding has a TV that is capable of receiving live TV then TVL will try to get them to admit they do watch live channels. They have a list of former occupent who advises them they moved, that triggers letters and visits. If you used a TV just to watch DVD's and did not connect it to any signal source of live TV then you do not need a licence if you do not watch BBC iPlayer.

There is no need to agree to engage TVL, ignore their letters, do not answer the door, be aware some universities let them wonder the halls, but I have heard of some facilities banning them because they intimidated female students by forcing their way in or putting their foot in the door. A chain on the door is essential as is a door viewer.

They can only get a warrant if they have seen live TV in your home, they have been know to lie and fabricate evidence on this, there is a video on youtube showing that case.

Legally what matters in shared accomodation is whether you have lease in just your name. So if four tenants were in a house and they had one lease, they would only need one license.

What is disgusting it to see TVL going after disabled people in supported living many of which do not have the mental faculty to understand what they are being forced to do.

As far as I am concerned Crapita TVL and all who work for them are total scum.

So if you watch live TV or iPlayer, pay your license but if you do not tell them to foxtrot oscar.

AndyWernham

There is an exemption for mobile devices where a student is covered by their home licence. A laptop is classed as a mobile device, if it is not plugged into the mains. My question is whether it is still classed as a mobile device if it is connected to a cabled internet connection.

Cornucopia

AndyWernham wrote: »

There is an exemption for mobile devices where a student is covered by their home licence. A laptop is classed as a mobile device, if it is not plugged into the mains. My question is whether it is still classed as a mobile device if it is connected to a cabled internet connection.

This exemption comes down to the use of the word "installed" in the Legislation. If a device is installed, it requires a Licence to watch TV on it. Unfortunately, that the only info/advice that can be given definitively because I'm not aware of any test cases. My intuition is that TVL and the Courts would regard a cable connection as being installed and therefore requiring a Licence.

You might want to look into acquiring an old Router (there are loads of them about) and seeing whether you could make your own wifi access point from your incoming cable connection (assuming it is Ethernet).

You can also get around it by solely watching commercial catch-up, Youtube, Netflix & Amazon as DavidP24 mentions. That way, it doesn't matter how the laptop is connected. If you have periodic access to a wifi or internet in a Licensed area, you could also use BBC iPlayer by download. i.e. download your programmes there and watch them later anywhere.

DavidP24

AndyWernham wrote: »

There is an exemption for mobile devices where a student is covered by their home licence. A laptop is classed as a mobile device, if it is not plugged into the mains. My question is whether it is still classed as a mobile device if it is connected to a cabled internet connection.

You are making the mistake of trying to find an excuse or exemption.

I think you will find that the exemption is if you live at home where say your parents pay for a license.

Your halls residence is just that, the place where you reside.

What we have learnt is not to engage with TVL, if you do they will try to get you to incriminate yourself and gather evidence. Do not engage and it becomes immaterial. NO CONTACT, do not answer the door, do not be decent (too many people did and got screwed).

If you watch, then pay, it is as simple as that.

If you do not then don't let these Gestapo Nazis near you.

END OF

Cornucopia

DavidP24 wrote: »

You are making the mistake of trying to find an excuse or exemption.

I think you will find that the exemption is if you live at home where say your parents pay for a license.

Your halls residence is just that, the place where you reside...

There is nothing wrong with AndyWernham's understanding of the exemption, and it is explained in similar terms by both MSE and TVL (and me).

The only question he had was whether he qualified for it, and I suspect the answer to that is no.

AndyWernham

It would seem to come down to the interpretation of the word "installed". I would argue that a laptop that can be carried around in a bag is not installed, even if it has an Ethernet cable plugged into it sometimes.
As my son is at university for less than half the year, I would also argue that his principle place of residence is still our home, which has a TV licence. The TVL website specifically mentions being connected to the mains, and an aerial, but makes no mention of an Ethernet cable.

Cornucopia

Ultimately, the only thing you can do is ask them. Unfortunately, they are a dreadful organisation, and their call centre staff are likely to tell you he needs a Licence, whether that is true or not.

David is right in the sense that there are several of these marginal scenarios, where all TVL have to do is publish a little more information, and at least we would have their definitive position.

In practice, they like to let uncertainty reign, presumably so that people buy Licences they do not need.