TV Licence article Discussion

cw18

pandamoneum27 wrote: »

I was only watching on my pc, nothing live or streamed.

Forgive me, but surely watching on your pc means they were streamed - regardless of whether live or not?

i explained i dont watch tv, tv wasnt even plugged in and that i only watch on my pc.

you need a licence if you watch live TV on any platform

I hate british tv and only watch american tv shows on my pc so i ended up paying for a tv license that i dont use

If you're watching the American shows as they're being broadcast in America, then you still need a TV licence. However, if you're watching them on catch-up (via something like iPlayer) you don't.

Cornucopia

beerleo wrote: »

By 'posh', I mean those who use Received Pronunciation (RP); especially the more affected extremes, e.g., Robert Peston. Regional or national accents or dialects can still be spoken with clarity.

Whilst it's slightly OT, it is one of my bug-bears about the UK Media industry (it's a wider issue than just the BBC - although they should know better)...

There are probably 20 million speakers of traditional working-class accents across Southern England, split into Estuary English, the Southern/South-western Rural accent and the accents for the various large cities outside London.

Of course there will always be dramatic roles for speakers of those accents, as well as posher people who can do a reasonable approximation of them. It's certainly good to have moved away from the 1950s model where RADA graduates would vie for the least convincing working-class accents in a film drama.

However, in factual media those millions of people are represented by a handful of presenters - Danny Baker being the most obvious example. And I note that there are probably more "professional idiots" or "professional heavies" like Joey Essex, Danny Dyer and Vinnie Jones in that group as there are serious contenders. There are also probably more people from Australia or Eire in factual presenting roles than there are speakers of traditional Southern English working-class accents.

The simple question is: could Danny Baker ever read the TV or Radio news (or even the Sport or Weather)? If not, why not? The follow-up question: why are the BBC and other London-based media so poor at tapping into the wealth of talent that must exist within mere miles of their front doors?

(I've concerned my comments solely to Southern England, which I know most about. I'm sure there are parallels in the North, as well as a similar but different sets of issues in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. And there are also "divides" between the regions and nations, too).

Zapito

beerleo wrote: »

It is run predominently by the 'Establishment', presented by the 'Establishment', and much of it is for the 'Establishment'.

There have always been people who think that as far back as I can remember. I thought it when I was a teenager refusing to stand up for the Queen in the cinema, going on demos against Viet Nam and The Bomb and hankering after revolution. Oh yes, and fighting for free radio. But when you think about it, who is "The Establishment"? Grownups mainly, I guess. People who used to be rebels but who are now grownups in the new world of their creation.

beerleo wrote: »

The British class system is alive and well thanks to the BBC.

In my experience the main proponents of the class system today are those who identify themselves as working class. They are the only ones always banging on about "class identity". The rest don't seem to give a damn.

It certainly does not represent me!

Me neither. The Beeb is not a representative organisation. It is a broadcasting organisation. For representation you need to look to your MP etc.

They have their place, as we all do, but I do not want them (posh people) shoved down my throat 24 hours a day and controlling British life to the extent they do.

I am beginning to believe there must be some truth in the parallel universe theory.

I do think that if the TV licence was abolished then it could bring an end this insipid elitist control of British society.

Oh dear, that does seem heartfelt. If only it were that easy to change the world.

cw18

Zapito wrote: »

Wow! I almost admire you, I simply cannot imagine life without the wide and mostly excellent variety of radio broadcasting available from the BBC. I think I'd rather ditch the whole thing and live as a wild man, trapping animals for food in the woods. But it takes all sorts.

Oh, but I almost forgot. You do use catchup, don't you? For radio as well?

Oh no, you said you didn't. Near-admiration status therefore duly restored!

How do you cope with all that local radio advertising?

The only thing I've ever listened to on the radio is music. I find I tune out any talking, so chat / debate shows and things like the Archers are of no use to me (I might hear 3 or 4 sentences in a half hour show). When I left the BBC channels it was because I preferred the mix of music on the local commercial station - and I'm still more than happy with it, though I can no longer compare to BBC as they may well have changed since I last tuned in (must be at least 10 years!).

Cornucopia

cw18 wrote: »

Forgive me, but surely watching on your pc means they were streamed - regardless of whether live or not?

Downloaded?

you need a licence if you watch live TV on any platform

On any conventional platform, yes... which would be Cable, Satellite and Freeview.

If you're watching the American shows as they're being broadcast in America, then you still need a TV licence. However, if you're watching them on catch-up (via something like iPlayer) you don't.

This is one of those areas where the TVL "rules" begin to look a little ragged and age-worn around the edges.

The TVL website says this:-

You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the Channel Islands.

I agree with this interpretation of the legislation.

Unfortunately, their website also contradicts this in various places

Zapito

Bedsit_Bob wrote: »

I think we all have a duty to challenge, defy and frustrate, any organisation which bullies and harrasses innocent people..

I would wholeheartedly agree with that. If bullying is happening then it must be stopped. On the other hand it is appropriate for the licensing authority to take reasonable enforcement steps.

Of course, if only those people who should pay would stop lying and cheating their way out of paying the licence then such steps would not be necessary. If your objection is to reasonable enforcement activity the I would suggest directing your ire towards those people.

Zapito

cw18 wrote: »

The only thing I've ever listened to on the radio is music.

I enjoy music too. For which of course I find Radio Three essential. Classic FM is quite pleasant, but highly repetitive and somewhat bland, middle of the road. None of the kind of experimentalism you sometimes get on R3. And where else can I find halfway decent jazz?

Plus the ads on Classic FM drive me mad!

[Deleted User]

cw18 wrote: »

If you're watching the American shows as they're being broadcast in America, then you still need a TV licence.

Not correct.

You only need a TV licence, for watching/recording programmes as they are being shown in the UK.

Cornucopia

Zapito wrote: »

I would wholeheartedly agree with that. If bullying is happening then it must be stopped. On the other hand it is appropriate for the licensing authority to take reasonable enforcement steps.

Of course it is in this area of reasonableness and lawfulness that many of the issues sit.

If we confine the discussion to policy issues for the time-being (and ignore wilful staff misconduct) then all of that is the responsibility of the BBC, who are (just to clarify) the Licensing Authority.

In my opinion, that was always going to be a potential conflict of interest, which was readily foreseeable by the BBC and the Government of the day (1991 - John Major's Government). Also in my opinion, that potential conflict of interest is compounded by the BBC's governance, which is wholly unsuited to a law enforcement role. The BBC should have been made answerable to the Home Office in respect of law enforcement functions.

The underlying problem for the BBC is that for public authorities, seeking to interfere with citizens' privacy in their homes, the Human Rights Act is in play. And that means that "reasonableness" means that there must be specific legislation... except that there isn't specific legislation. So anything the BBC does, or instructs others to do, that interferes with the privacy of citizens in their own homes is both unreasonable and unlawful.

These are the fundamentals, and as before, there's little point quibbling around the edges of the issue when there is such a glaring hole right in the middle of it.

Hopefully, you are now beginning to realise that the issues with BBC/TVL are neither arbitrary nor petty, nor really about evaders - they are about a major British institution wilfully disregarding historic legal principles as enacted by current legislation and case law.

cw18

Do I need a TV Licence to watch satellite programmes broadcast from outside the UK or Channel Islands?

Yes you do. You need a TV Licence to watch or record live TV, no matter where it is broadcast or distributed from. This includes satellite or online streamed programmes from outside the UK or Channel Islands, such as sporting events and foreign shows.
Live TV means any programme you watch or record at the same time as it’s being shown on TV or an online TV service.
If you only ever watch on demand programmes, you don’t need a TV Licence. On demand includes catch-up TV, streaming or downloading programmes after they’ve been shown on live TV, or programmes available online before being shown on live TV.

from http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/technology--devices-and-online-top8


I don't see anything that indicates only if being shown on UK/Channel Islands stations. Surely 'online TV service' includes those from abroad?



And further - from the same page (last question)

Do I need a TV Licence to watch live TV programmes from outside the UK or Channel Islands

Yes, you need a TV Licence if you watch or record live TV online, no matter where the programme is broadcast from. This includes programmes from outside the UK and Channel Islands that are streamed online, such as sporting events and foreign shows.
Live TV means any programme you watch or record at the same time as it’s being shown on TV or an online TV service.If you only ever watch on demand programmes, you don’t need a TV Licence. On demand includes catch-up TV, streaming or downloading programmes after they’ve been shown on live TV, or programmes available online before being shown on live TV.


which (to me) says you need for Live TV from anywhere regardless of whether or not it's being shown on UK channels.