Trust Inheritance Will Writing Service

sloughflint

expertlinguist wrote: »

OP reference is to the cost charged by Trust Inheritance to actually be the executors of the estate, which is a separate "product"

Oh I see.A bit of confusion there then. So you are talking about something else. You did not make that clear considering the context of the thread up to the point you joined it and the fact that you were describing alternative costs for professional estate administration.
So for the company to act as executor, that’s £2600 payable immediately plus a max of 1% and separate to this, you are describing a completely different product for £2500.

expertlinguist wrote: »

I never advocated that my Company should be nominated as an executor to replace close family, oddly enough we encourage it, we only offer Legal Advice to whoever needs it.

Well that’s good because this and other companies have been mentioned for pushing the executor aspect.
BTW not all solicitors charge by the hour. I remember being quoted 1.5% plus vat.

expertlinguist wrote: »

Anyhow, I never said that TI is better than solicitors, except that sloughflint does mention that some solicitors are not up to the task, even those specializing in probate.....OK, who to go next then? The Post Office with £3.50 for a DIY job? TI is a trust corporation specializing in wills and probate, and our legal department is made up by lawyers who specialize in probate.

You keep mentioning the ‘free’ legal advice. What guarantees can you offer on its quality? Is this advice from STEP qualified people? Yes my belief is that not all solicitors specialising in Wills and probate are competent enough to draft wills or administer estates properly.

expertlinguist wrote: »

As a small note, if one visits the fool website and looks up probate and such, there is a "real" lawyer who says that nominating friends, from his previous experiences, is not a good idea.

Having the flexibility to choose to use a professional and change if not happy with the service is far better IMO.

expertlinguist wrote: »

As far as the longevity of the Company goes, no one has a crystal ball to say that we are going to be there in 60 years time or not

So all the more reason to not be tied to a company.

expertlinguist wrote: »

I totally agree with Torby about having a will drawn up asap by a professional and about keeping it up to date.

Do the people who visit draft the Wills and what are their qualifications?
What form of insurance is there if there later is found to be a problem with a Will?

expertlinguist wrote: »

I never thought that drumming up business for one's employer was wrong....but I might be.

I’m not sure that you have drummed up business but it is generally frowned upon on MSE.

monkey_spank

This is a firm that quotes £49 to get in your door, only to build it up into a nice little earner of £2500+ of which the 'consultant' will take a nice little cut in commission.

You will almost certainly be visited by a salesman, that is a person who will have no legal qualifications whatsoever. Instead of practical advice on tailoring your Will correctly, you will be told plenty of horror stories about what can go wrong with probate.

What they won't tell you is that most executors can be a trusted friend or family member who is most likely to be able to administer an estate for nothing apart from the probate fee and a few postage stamps.

expertlinguist wrote:

Probate Court Staff are very helpful, but can not give legal advice, which one will need as soon as there are competing claims on the estate

What a load of tosh. If the Will is written clearly there shouldn't be any competing claims.

expertlinguist wrote:

as an employee of Trust Inheritance I thought I should expand a bit more on some of the services that we offer, if it comes across as a sell spiel than be it, I never thought that drumming up business for one's employer was wrong....but I might be.

Well the rules are quite clear on this and you are breaking them - though whether you're doing your firm any favours is a moot point, particularly as this forum is littered with testimonies of disgruntled punters.

So just to sum up

• Is this firm a member of any recognised professional bodies? - no.
• Is there any redress system in place? - no.
• Apart from perhaps one solicitor that's claimed to be employed, are the wills produced by competent professionals? - unlikely.
• Are all the staff properly insured? - very doubtful.
• Will the consultant be present to ensure it's properly signed etc? - probably not.
• Will you be visited by a commission hungry salesman? - almost definitely.
• Will this firm be around many years from now when you may need 'their legal advice?' - who knows.

So my advice is get your Will written by somebody who is properly qualified, insured and regulated. Unless there are very good reasons, do not appoint a 'professional' as your executors. Do not pay for any upfront 'services' either. Your executors can pay a solicitor of their choosing later on if they need legal advice.

I wouldn't touch this firm with a bargepole.

expertlinguist

OK, let's go in stages:

I am not even going to answer to monkey spank, the reason for it is that he obviously has done no research whatsoever, for his benefit though he should be aware that all estates will be faced with competing claims, the demand, by a funeral director, to be paid for his services is a competing claim on the estate.

As far as the comments from sloughflint I agree with all of it, except that the following points need a little note from me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by expertlinguist
As far as the longevity of the Company goes, no one has a crystal ball to say that we are going to be there in 60 years time or not

So all the more reason to not be tied to a company.

Went to see a client yesterday who chose a local solicitor to write their will a few years ago, the will needed updating so they called at the solicitor office but it is now an employment agency, solicitor retired due to ill health and the Law Society doesn't know where this clients paperwork is...if he would have died in the meantime he would have been intestate.....I believe a Legal Firm that belongs to an Association is far safer than individuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by expertlinguist
I totally agree with Torby about having a will drawn up asap by a professional and about keeping it up to date.

Do the people who visit draft the Wills and what are their qualifications?
What form of insurance is there if there later is found to be a problem with a Will?

The visiting consultant only takes down instructions, although there is a form to fill in where relevant question about children (including adopted and step) previous marriages and anything that could be described as unusual is covered.

Every consultant has to pass a yearly exam to obtain a legal licence, before they are let loose (so to speak) on the general public.

The Company has liability insurance (no body trading in whatever this day and age should be without it) which also covers all consultants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by expertlinguist
I never thought that drumming up business for one's employer was wrong....but I might be.

I’m not sure that you have drummed up business but it is generally frowned upon on MSE.

It was not my intention to drum up business for TI on this forum, if that is the impression I gave I do apologize again, as I explained earlier I came across this thread by accident as I was doing some research on line.

Now quickly to jimmo:

You or your wife, depending on the size of the estate, will not inherit everything by default under intestacy rules; if there is a property and you are "joint tenants" the property passes on by survivorship not by will, but the rest could be divided among other living relatives, in your case your children. If you are positive that the surviving spouse is never going to need care provided by the state than your assumption is nearly right, because if you do not provide on first death for the children to eventually inherit the family home, and you can only do this by will, then the property might be lost to "care home fees".

Regards all

sloughflint

monkey_spank wrote: »

I wouldn't touch this firm with a bargepole.

Well said monkeyspank. :T
I’ve taken a closer look at the website:

A Trust Inheritance Consultant will give you all the help and advice you need, and guide you step by step through the process of making a Will, allowing you to express your wishes effectively. All at a price you can afford.
Once your instructions are taken they are passed to our in-house Legal Department. This is headed by our Company Lawyer and supported by staff with combined legal experience of more than 50 years. The Legal department will then draft a Will from your personal instructions, which is then returned to you for checking and signing.

Our network of fully trained consultants covers the whole of the UK

Fully trained in what? Selling? Certainly not in writing Wills otherwise they’d be writing them themselves.

expertlinguist wrote: »

I never advocated that my Company should be nominated as an executor to replace close family, oddly enough we encourage it, we only offer Legal Advice to whoever needs it.

From the estate administration page:

Most people would prefer to use family members or friends as their chosen Executors, and with the correct help and guidance this would also be the recommendation of Trust Inheritance.

With a choice of level 1, 2 or 3 support underneath this quote…..level 3 containing many of the bullet points expertlinguist mentioned and levels 2 and 1 probably incurring further costs on top of the £2500 fee for the ‘personal Estate Plan’. This would tie in with OP’s post.

The cynic in me just wonders if the ‘free’ phone advice might rather quickly lead on to recommendation for levels 2 or 1 support at ‘Preferential rates for Personal Estate Plan members’
Especially in view of this:

The introduction of the transferable nil rate band allowance between married couples and civil partners has the effect of doubling up the Inheritance Tax allowances available on second death. However this is not automatic. In order to claim the full allowances the Executors will have to provide H M Revenue and Customs with detailed documentary evidence of the estate administration of the first to die, however long ago that may have been. This highlights the need for professional help in administering estates and record keeping.

Anyway this prepaid support wouldn't be much good if it is needed in 15 years' time and the company no longer exists.

This forum has several threads on this company, with a commonality of this 2k fee. Not one mentioned a great service for the grand sum of £49.
What do I make of that? That monkeyspank has hit the nail on the head with:

Will you be visited by a commission hungry salesman? - almost definitely.

Every time I read threads on this topic of Wills and having watched that programme that Torby mentioned, I feel more convinced that the whole industry needs to be regulated. This is something that the Institute of Professional Willwriters has been pushing for.

This was an interesting article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7253417.stm

jimmo wrote: »

How about a bit of controversy to liven things up a bit?
My wife and I haven’t made wills
Whichever one dies first, the other will inherit the lot under the intestacy rules.
When the second of us goes then on today’s rates the estate will be well below the IHT threshold and under the intestacy rules our 2 sons will each inherit a half share.
Our only real asset is the house and if one of our sons wants to live in it after we have gone he is going to have to buy out his brother in any event.
What is wrong with that and why do I need to make a will?
Why on earth should I stump up £2,500 now in respect of costs that may arise after I have gone?

Jimmo, I’m no expert but the first thing that came to mind on reading your post was the the possibility of the surviving spouse remarrying and consequences of that.

sloughflint

Expertlinguist must have posted as I was composing my post. I'm not going to remove my post but briefly scanning his/her post some of mine may not be relevant.I'll come back to it later.

.......

sloughflint wrote: »

Fully trained in what? Selling? Certainly not in writing Wills otherwise they’d be writing them themselves.

expertlinguist wrote: »

The visiting consultant only takes down instructions, although there is a form to fill in where relevant question about children (including adopted and step) previous marriages and anything that could be described as unusual is covered.

Every consultant has to pass a yearly exam to obtain a legal licence, before they are let loose (so to speak) on the general public.

Ok maybe I was being a tad harsh with the training in selling comment then. But I don’t know how good this legal licence is and I really don’t like the fact that the person drafting the Will isn’t the person that discussed all the options with the client. Surely if the licence was good enough, they could write the Will themselves.

expertlinguist wrote: »

Went to see a client yesterday who chose a local solicitor to write their will a few years ago, the will needed updating so they called at the solicitor office but it is now an employment agency, solicitor retired due to ill health and the Law Society doesn't know where this clients paperwork is...if he would have died in the meantime he would have been intestate

This certainly makes storing the Will at the High Court of Justice an attractive option.

I’m still struggling to work out how good the ‘free’ legal advice offered is. And I’m not sure it would even be required for the administration of a simple estate. Information is out there. For example HMRC’s customer guide is very good as is their probate helpline.

Still a non starter for me, I’m afraid. But I worry for people who might be persuaded to part with 2.5k ( unnecessarily I feel) by a pushy [strike]salesperson[/strike] consultant.

The more I think about it Jimmo, the more I think I may have had a point about the possibility of remarriage and assets not necessarily passing to your sons as hoped for. Definitely worth looking into.

Baggysdad

Irrespective of the pros and cons of the quality of the TI service and products and their method of marketing, ask yourself:

Would I spend £2000+ for a car to be delivered to me in 20 years time, knowing full well that the car maker could go bust at any point in the next 20 years? Thereby I don't get my car and I don't get to see my £2,000 ever again.

If the answer is Yes, then the TI service is for you.

If the answer is No, then the TI service is not for you.

sloughflint

Put like that, it's so obvious however I'm sure people can be easily persuaded.That's what worries me.

monkey_spank

expertlinguist wrote:

I am not even going to answer to monkey spank, the reason for it is that he obviously has done no research whatsoever, for his benefit though he should be aware that all estates will be faced with competing claims, the demand, by a funeral director, to be paid for his services is a competing claim on the estate.

Is that the best you can do? Believe me, my 'loved ones' have been on the receiving end of unscrupulous outfits like yours and I have done no end of research into the matter.

I have also administered several estates, one of which involved a trust, without having to pay any money in legal fees whatsoever. A funeral bill as a 'competing claim' on the estate is rather tenuous isn't it? The executor must pay all debts and taxes first (as the Will should state), so it doesn't need £2000 worth of legal advice to get me to write out a cheque to pay for the funeral!

expertlinguist wrote:

The visiting consultant only takes down instructions, although there is a form to fill in where relevant question about children (including adopted and step) previous marriages and anything that could be described as unusual is covered.

That's because he's a salesman - where's the face to face advice?

Every consultant has to pass a yearly exam to obtain a legal licence, before they are let loose (so to speak) on the general public.

An exam in what? How to terrify poor old pensioners about all the 'problems' of probate at a time when the family is so grief stricken...

sloughflint wrote:

Every time I read threads on this topic of Wills and having watched that programme that Torby mentioned, I feel more convinced that the whole industry needs to be regulated. This is something that the Institute of Professional Willwriters has been pushing for.

I agree strongly with the stance they are taking - it really is about time the unethical and unscrupulous are driven out of business.

Incidentally, here’s what their home page says:

“The Institute of Professional Willwriters was founded in 1991 as a self-regulatory body to safeguard the public from unqualified practitioners and unethical business practices.

Membership is available only to those who pass the IPW entrance examination, or an equivalent run by the Law Society, the Institute of Legal Executives or the Chartered Institute of Bankers. Members are required to update their knowledge and skills annually through a programme of Continuing Professional Development in order to retain their practising certificate.

All IPW members have Professional Indemnity Insurance cover to a minimum of £2million, and subscribe to a rigorous Code of Practice backed up by a disciplinary code.

Clients can be assured that, by dealing with an IPW member, they will receive a service that is professional, ethical and competent.”

I like it. :T I notice your company isn’t a member – says it all really.

expertlinguist

At this point since everybody has an opinion.....is that the same as opinionated:huh:....I feel it would be totally useless to carry on the debate.

If I ever thought that this forum was only for flaming wars probably I would have never have contributed my first tuppence.:embarasse

Preconceived ideas and inflexible attitudes have been the scourge of humanity from the day Eve handed the apple to Adam.

Yet again, I do apologize for the my audacity in entering this thread, believing I was going to contribute a slither of information.

One last thought....if one bites a sour apple, all one has to do is spit it out and take a spoonful of honey, yet the apple will never be but a sour apple.

Regards

sloughflint

expertlinguist wrote: »

At this point since everybody has an opinion.....is that the same as opinionated:huh:....I feel it would be totally useless to carry on the debate.

If I ever thought that this forum was only for flaming wars probably I would have never have contributed my first tuppence.:embarasse

Preconceived ideas and inflexible attitudes have been the scourge of humanity from the day Eve handed the apple to Adam.

Yet again, I do apologize for the my audacity in entering this thread, believing I was going to contribute a slither of information.

One last thought....if one bites a sour apple, all one has to do is spit it out and take a spoonful of honey, yet the apple will never be but a sour apple.

Regards

Well I think it is fair to say that you haven’t exactly done yourself or your company any great favours here, expertlinguist-especially with this last effort of yours.
But in a way you have perhaps brought issues relating to will-writing/probate to the fore of MSE minds so thank you.:T

Rather than resort to venom when you receive some criticism ( quite mild from me considering how sick I am of reading about bad will-writing companies/solicitor goofs), I for one would have respected you more if you had been prepared to debate/educate us further if you are so sure that we are wrong.

I’d say I'm fairly flexible with my views. After all since joining this forum, I have shifted from the opinion that ‘only STEP qualified solicitors are worthwhile considering’ to ‘IPW members may well be a worthwhile cheaper alternative’.

I gave you the opportunity to reassure me on the quality of the legal side of things.

sloughflint wrote: »

You keep mentioning the ‘free’ legal advice. What guarantees can you offer on its quality? Is this advice from STEP qualified people? Yes my belief is that not all solicitors specialising in Wills and probate are competent enough to draft wills or administer estates properly.

Nothing was forthcoming. I'm guessing that these same people might also draft the Wills? If anything this aspect was far more important than the product you were educating us all on.

But seeing as you have brought this product to our attention, I am concerned that people ( I know several who would trustingly accept a sales pitch suggesting a misleading saving of £9550*) watching the TV adverts for your company will ring up and get the hard sell like this poster:

They also offer a service called 'WILLS for Life' which seems a great option as although I have family that could be executors and sort things out it seems the laws are getting so wild that it could be more of a burden if I left it to a family member especially as we have young children.
Anyway the service is £2,250.00 and to me seems worth the money as they handle the estate, etc which is a lot less than a solicitor would.

Who then went on to do some research and concluded:

I thought the price sounded good as he told me most solicitors charge from £10k - £20k to administor an estate, which is a lot of money to take out of the estate.

Anyway I've called around the local solicitors and they estimate between £2k and £5k which is a lot more acceptable.

Actually after speaking with the solicitors there are many things I was told by this guy last night that are, well lets say stretched.
Especially that they are appointed by Barclays as their underwriters of WILLs. No one seems to know who Trust Inheritance are.

I will reiterate. This sector needs regulating.

* I wonder how many people listening to you promote the product think about how much that £2500 might be worth after sitting in an inflation beating savings account for say 15 years?