Was My Lecturer's Response Fair?

Tigersilly

Well, actually if other science students did argue this they'd be a bit mad seeing as they do already get extra practice via their other science modules. I was merely requesting that we receive support- (4 practicals a year doesn't provide much experience), not someone to wipe our backsides.

Well, as the year is nearly over I'm more focused on exams than this issue.

endoftheline

lol , we were in the same position at uni, and complained to our year tutor. im just laughing remembering my lecturers face when he was grovelling apologies, the pompous !!!!:beer:

melancholly

i'd guess that they may not allow joint honours students to do the practicals in future - it is daft expecting you to be as good as other students who do it more often, but conversely if you only do four, it can't be all that important to your course (which is a shame as lab classes are often one of the best ways to learn because unlike lectures, you can interact with staff)! i understand where your lecturer is coming from, and even why the demonstrators were a bit annoyed at staying later, but that doesn't make the attitude ok! the demonstrators shouldn't have let you overhear their complaints and the lecturer should have tried to be more even handed. i think joint honours students can suffer sometimes as they fall in the cracks when courses are planned and then get tacked on the end in a way that isn't always appropriate for them. if you want a better response, try speaking to someone specifically involved with joint honours programmes - the lecturer on that module, understandably, doesn't want to rethink what he does for a minority of students. but someone who thinks the joint honours course is important may see it differently!

bottleredhead

I started doing a foundation degree in IT in 2005; one of our lecturers was as mad as a hatter to put it mildly.

She used to wander off out the room mid sentence, start the lectures mid sentence (literally, walk in and say something random like "so what is the outcome?")

She was well respected and highly educated, loads of achievements business wise; but hopeless as a tutor. We were all mature students and she treated us like errant children.

At first it was amusing but as the year wore on we got so frustrated because we weren't learning anything.

In the end we spoke to our course leader and he was brilliant; obviously a tricky situation for him but responded to our complaints and sat in on a couple of her lectures to see what was going on.

We don't know what was said to her but from then on her lectures were spot on.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is get toghether with your fellow students and go higher up with your complaint and good luck!

Cardelia

candyflossing wrote: »

You are paying this guys wage, remember ... if you're not happy with the way he's teaching you, then tell your reps & head of department!

Actually, if they were postgraduate demonstrators, then none of your tuition fees go to them. For science subjects, postgraduate students are usually funded by research councils who stipulate that students have to do x number of hours work for the university as part of the condition of funding (it's 36 hours for EPSRC-funded students). So a small amount of your tuition fee may go towards paying the academic lecturer, but postgraduate students and postdocs don't get a penny of your tuition fees.

Blacksheep1979

Tigersilly wrote: »

Well, actually if other science students did argue this they'd be a bit mad seeing as they do already get extra practice via their other science modules. I was merely requesting that we receive support- (4 practicals a year doesn't provide much experience), not someone to wipe our backsides.

Well, as the year is nearly over I'm more focused on exams than this issue.

I wasn't saying that you'd have more practicals than them in total, but more focus/attention in that course which would be a little unfair.

celyn90

Cardelia wrote: »

Actually, if they were postgraduate demonstrators, then none of your tuition fees go to them. For science subjects, postgraduate students are usually funded by research councils who stipulate that students have to do x number of hours work for the university as part of the condition of funding (it's 36 hours for EPSRC-funded students). So a small amount of your tuition fee may go towards paying the academic lecturer, but postgraduate students and postdocs don't get a penny of your tuition fees.

Our postgrad demonstrators get paid and our post-doc demonstrators are classed as "senior demonstrators" so get paid quite a bit - same as what a lecturing staff member would get paid for doing the class. And quite rightly so, as it's skilled work and really not easy. You should be paid.

Cardelia

celyn90 wrote: »

Our postgrad demonstrators get paid and our post-doc demonstrators are classed as "senior demonstrators" so get paid quite a bit - same as what a lecturing staff member would get paid for doing the class. And quite rightly so, as it's skilled work and really not easy. You should be paid.

It used to be the case that postgrad demonstrators were paid for all the hours they did, but the new funding rules which were brought in in 2005 meant that all new postgrad students have to do 36 hours work for the university without getting paid. I don't know if it's common to all the funding bodies, but for the EPSRC it's certainly the case.

Of course, once you get to 36 hours, there's nothing to stop you doing more hours and getting paid for it

Postdocs were never paid though, usually some teaching is stipulated as part of their duties in their contract. Maybe I'm being short-changed?

celyn90

Cardelia wrote: »

It used to be the case that postgrad demonstrators were paid for all the hours they did, but the new funding rules which were brought in in 2005 meant that all new postgrad students have to do 36 hours work for the university without getting paid. I don't know if it's common to all the funding bodies, but for the EPSRC it's certainly the case.

Of course, once you get to 36 hours, there's nothing to stop you doing more hours and getting paid for it

Postdocs were never paid though, usually some teaching is stipulated as part of their duties in their contract. Maybe I'm being short-changed?

I think you are being badly short changed. Most of us are EPSRC here and we all still get paid for all the hours we do, regardless of when we started - we're not even asked which funding body we are with. They have trouble finding people to demonstrate even with paying them as some (not all)supervisors disapprove of us being out of the lab for a day at a time. I can't see anything on EPRSCs website about working fior the University. Is it possible that your institution is using the demonstrating as your "transferrable" skills section instead of attending a GradSchool?

It's skilled work and your skills are worth paying you for - imagine what it would cost to hire someone to come in and run the sessions!

Cardelia

I found this on the university of Bristol's website:

Postgraduate Students
The normal expectation is that postgraduate students engaged to undertake part time teaching will be paid at the relevant part time rate. However, it is recognised that some research studentships/awards are calculated on the assumption that the role will include an element of teaching. In such circumstances, additional payment may not be made. Any part time teaching arrangements must not run counter to University or Research Council regulations on employment for full time students.

I know that Bristol chemistry students don't get paid for demonstrating, so I presume something similar to the above applies to Southampton (where I did my PhD). I should add that it didn't affect me because I started in 2004, but for all the students starting in 2005 there was an expectation that they would undertake 36 hours work on behalf of the university before earning the demonstrator rate. I can't find a reference to it anywhere on the web though, I'll ask when I'm next in Southampton.

I suppose it's possible that it is in lieu of a GradSchool position - I didn't go on one of these and students weren't really encouraged to do it. I know a couple of people who went and said it was worthwhile, but my supervisor was more keen on me attending conferences than a GradSchool. I didn't argue because it meant a paid trip to Boston