Was My Lecturer's Response Fair?

Tigersilly

Hi my degree is part social science part natural science. The majority of my lectures are for the social sciences so I tend to find classes easier. For the cell biology component of my course we have lab practicals during the year. We have had only 4 practicals in the space of a year and because of this - I feel very unsure of whether my work is correct, I'm constantly 2nd guessing myself because I feel that I haven't had enough practice.

Today in the cell biology lab practical I and others on my course took longer than others who study for a full natural sciences degree to complete our lab work. The teachers in that lab practical kept telling us to hurry up(at 12.30pm) and one even said 'they don't know what they're doing, come on just let me sign the thing so we can go'. I was offended by this comment. We were initially told we had from 9 am - 1pm to complete the experiment and write up a rough draft of calculations and a graph.

By 1pm we had finished and we had our work signed. Because we are angry about the fact that we were basically told that we ‘couldn’t do the work’ by one teacher we went to visit our course lecturer. We told him about our problems about not having enough lab experience as others who take the module and he told me that next year perhaps he wouldn’t let people taking social science + natural science degree onto his course. I was incensed and told him that what we needed was more practice sessions in the lab. He then went on to say that perhaps he would cut the time allowed to write the report by an hour because ‘that would cause us to write up everything faster’, and teacher should help us (and others taking the module) less because we should be independent learners. I felt that he had just concluded that we should be forced into an even more difficult position in order to somehow inspire us to work faster – as though the problem was our speed of completion and it could be solved by tightening our time constraints and lessening the amount of help given. I left feeling ignored and if anything with the impression that instead of being given any help at all we should have more pressure applied to us. How would this solve the problem? Does anyone else think that this was a fair response from my lecturer?

I'm not doing badly on the course - I'm averaging mid-60s %, but I want to understand my subject better. I felt as though my lecturer believed we were failing and incapable.

Red_Cat

Ooh that's a tough one. I have been an undergrad, and postgrad taking seminars and labs and can sort of see both sides.
I can understand your point totally. it is very unprofessional for teachers to make comments about students whilst they are still doing the work. The course lecturer should have done something more positive about that.
In my mind, studying for a degree means students are making a committment as adults to spending time studying, doing modules, exams etc. This means students are empowered to challenge the people teaching them if they are not being given the right support to succeed.
However, lecturers (especially those with research interests) often do not administer the lab sessions. Often it's a post grad student, so it might be those inexperienced people who need to be not making inappropriate comments but instead supporting the students.
Perversely I can see where the course lecturer is coming from. At my uni, we had the same attitude. There was a benchmark to be met and if the students didn't achieve it regardless of the training they were given, then that was that. The purpose being that poorer performing students would be weeded out or at least repeat certain modules, in order to ensure those who got firsts actually earned them.

MrsManda

that's horrible, where are you studying?
I don't think that's a fair response at all. How long has the course been running? Is it new? I was wondering whether it was a new course and they're realising it's not going to work? If not, have you spoken to a second year student and see what they think? Does everyone on the course have the same experience as you? Because if they do you should get together, write a complaint and go to the department head.

good luck

Red_Cat

I should have wished you good luck as well.

I am not siding with the lecturer, just that I have experienced that attitude before. As I emntioned, you are adults, not like kids in a school. So you should do something, even if it means going to the Dean or Year tutor.

Tigersilly

I attend the university of Westminster.

Thank you - you're right, I'm not a child.. I'm a 25 year old mature student! And as it's the end of the year I'm more than tempted to say 'sod it!', but I am quite upset about the lack of support we've had and the patronising way that my lecturer suggested cutting our learning 'privileges'.

I am a hard worker, don't get me wrong- and I understand about the desire to cultivate independent thinking at university, but as students studying psychological sciences we are much worse off than those solely studying natural sciences because they have more modules that complement eachother in terms of learning material. We're palmed off with a 'oh you can do it [assumption]', or a 'oh you can't do it, but you SHOULD be able to do it'. The lack of support provided is irritating me. I think it would be a good idea to follow this through, but my energy levels are dwindling and I have oodles of coursework to complete before my exams in May. I suppose I'd rather complete those than chase this up.

Thank you for replying to my vent!

Cardelia

Hmm, like Red Cat, I can see both sides of it. University is a place where the student is supposed to take responsibility for his or her own education. This means that if you feel you are not receiving the support you need, the onus is on you to sort it out. In my eyes, that would involve contacting the lecturer/course supervisor as soon as you knew you were struggling with the practical aspect of the course and not waiting until something like this happened.

However. If the lab session was due to last until 1pm and you completed the work in that time, then the response of the lecturers/postgraduate demonstrators was out of order. Practical sessions are usually timetabled so that the average student would finish early, allowing some time for the slower students to also finish the practical and not lose out. I don't think you did anything wrong and really, you should mention this to someone more senior than the course lecturer.

Practical courses are also generally designed so that the actual practical aspect of them is pretty standalone from the lecture course. The writeups may involve more in-depth analysis of the experiment which ties in with the lectures and workshops, but the actual experiment is supposed to teach the basic techniques which would enable you to go on and become a researcher in the field. If you're just struggling with this then I wouldn't worry too much, I would be more concerned if you weren't understanding the theory behind the experiment - evidently from your average grade, this isn't a problem!

RachyClaire

That sounds super !!!!!!, do you have any student reps who represent you to the heirarchy of your uni? ours could attend various meetings that werent open to normal students and their imput was always taken very seriously! x

System

You are paying this guys wage, remember ... if you're not happy with the way he's teaching you, then tell your reps & head of department!

celyn90

Ouch, that's a hard one. I can see both sides too.

It's really difficult when you are studying a lab class and the students are from different backgrounds, I remember struggling terrribly to get to grips with some of the biochem practicals when I was an undergraduate because I only minored in the subject and everyone else was a major at least. Lab work especially. Do you get the practicals in advance to look at? That helped me as I could complete parts of the write-up and do some extra reading before hand to keep me up to speed during the class. Either that or maybe try and hunt down a practical cell biology text book so to familarise yourself with some of the techniques on paper before you go in, just so your a bit more confident to dive in. I should think it would be incredibily difficult to timetable extra lab work for you, but could you ask to sit in on another class and observe/participate if you worried about your skills. So if you feel you are struggling, then there are a few options you can consider. You might also find that some uni's have videotapes of practical techniques kicking around and extra resources like that, so you can watch a demonstration of an actual technique.

On the other hand it is frustrating when you are trying to teach a lab class and some students are behind, for whatever reason. Often I've been stuck in the lab an hour after the set time because a few students haven't finished, even if they've had quite a lot of help from us. Your demonstrators will hate overruns as they won't don't get paid for them but will stay because they don't want you to fail (when in reality, I could tell my lot to go the moment the clock strikes regardless and just not grade them, but I don't because I'm nice). Because of that sometimes we do try to hurry the students on a little when it's getting late, as sometimes they just don't notice how the time has ticked on. Sometimes the strategy of making the time tighter does work - the number of times I've gently suggested that students use the experimental "dead time" to wash up or start writing rather than watch the equipment for 1/2 hr you wouldn't believe - but this multitasking does come with practice and experience. There isn't any justification for making you feel bad though, especially as you did finish within time. I wouldn't dream of speaking to one of my lot like that, no matter how late they were.

So I think that you need to take some positive steps to improve your practical work if it's worrying you and you lack confidence and your demonstrator needs a good kick for being unprofessional.

DrFluffy

Do you have a staff-student committee or similar. Sometimes peeps in a different discipline need a reminder that it's harder to perform when you're out side your norm/comfort zone.

Hope you get it sorted.

xxx

Blacksheep1979

Unfortunatly lecturers don't tailor their course for joint hons students - you should maybe be a little more careful in choosing options with practical parts if you don't have the experience to do it. You really can't expect the uni to put on extra lessons for some people at extra expense. You'd then have the other students complaining they aren't getting as much face time as you guys.