Euro car parks - Parking fine, do you think i could get away with...

mpython

These points have been debated in another thread:-

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=269814&page=20

and in particular you can check it out again on BBC iplayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_the_piper
If you missed it, like me, its on BBC Iplayer from today. I understand its quite dismissive of PPC's and their invoices.

Here's an extract from the programme's report:

Quote:
25 February 2008


While clamping firms now have to be licensed, private parking firms don’t, and there are no set rules they have to follow. Some join the British Parking Association but even then its code of conduct is entirely voluntary. Conrad Murray is a lawyer who thinks the public are frightened into paying up when they receive these charges from private firms. Unlike penalty charges from the police or councils, you’re not legally obliged to pay them. He says that if they charge is unreasonable you shouldn’t pay, “If you get a parking charge notice you haven’t broken the law; you’ve committed no offence.”
Backs up what many peope have argued on here.

Read it in full here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and...20080225.shtml

bottleredhead

If I was ordering a PC from PC world...not that I would lol but if I did I'd spend around 40/50 mins finding a pc I liked, 5 mins negotiating a slightly better deal, 10 to 15 mins sorting out paperwork and being asked for extended warrenties, 10 mins lag time when they cant find the pc I requested. The PC I wanted cost 1000 + VAT and then + my £30 parking fine as I spent 1hr 30 shopping. It stinks.

I'm just a little worried what will proceed, for £30 and my own peace of mind maybe i should just pay?

If I dont pay and I'm totally guessing here, they request my details from the DVLA, send me a reminder which will be £50 plus their admin fee. If I still dont pay do they then take me to court? Which could cost me thousands?

It gripes me to pay for something that I dont think I should but I'm thinking; write a mail merge to all the surrounding businesses saying I will never be shopping there again after getting a parking ticket, pay my £30 and hope for some vouchers

If that was the case you would, after your 50 mins looking, pop out to the car park and move your car, surely?!

I had to complain to patient affairs on Friday about treatment my daughter received at the hospital that day; I was in a half hour bay. I asked the lady on reception would I get clamped if it goes over the 1/2 hour (which it would have done) she said probably, but rang the parking guy and he said it would be ok.

He didn't know what car I had so I was still worried about getting clamped so I got my sister to pop out after 25 mins to move the car because I didnt want to risk a ticket/clamp.

NEVER risk it when parking, in 25 years driving I have never had a parking ticket because I always make sure I follow any rules/signs etc and if in doubt I double check or park elsewhere.

I find it incredible that when, like you, people park where they shouldnt, in full knowledge of the rules, then moan about getting a ticket.

Bamber19

darich wrote: »

Legally the OP shouldn't have parked where they did but it still happened.

Like i said, if these companies couldn't get money then they wouldn't exist. But they can and do get money whether it's legally enforceable or not./quote]

First off it's not illegal to park there. Secondly the reason these companies get money is because of people like the OP who inevitebly pay up not necessarily because they're entitled to the money so I fail to see the relevance, I mean, if i send out 1000 letters to 1000 random people saying they owe me £10 for whatever reason, perhaps include a technical term, i'll probably get a couple of tenners through the post but it wont mean what I'm doing is right or that i'm entitled to any money. Education is what's required, not "Just pay it because other people pay it and these companies exist as a result."

darich wrote: »

i was driving the other day at 50mph in a 30 limit.
The road was empty nad i thought I'd get away with it. Can't believe the police had the audacity to pull me in and charge me.

Great analogy, what you've described there is illegal, parking in a car park is not.

darich wrote: »

I believe it's an urban myth that civil notices aren't legally enforceable. If the sign is prominently displayed (and it was), is observed by the car park users (and it was) then any fine which is shown on the sign can be issued (and it was). With that taken into account, i believe the car park operator are perfectly entitled to chase any money they are entitled to using whatever means they deem necessary while staying within the law.

It's not a fine, private companies can't issue fines. In any event if it's deemed to be a contract you'd also need to consider the unfair contract terms act and denning's opinion that such a term would not be enforceable even if it was in bold red writing with a big hand pointing to it.

sarahg1969

OP, you've been had.

Please send me your name and address, so I can post an unenforceable invoice for you to pay.

You were not fined by ECP; they invoiced you. They rely on people like you giving in to their bullying tactics, unfortunately.

Next time, take a look at https://www.pepipoo.com before parting with your hard-earned cash.

mccristo

If I had been going to PC world I wouldn't have seen the parking sign, theres one on a pedestrian walkway at the opposite end of the car park, I happened to use that way as it lead to the library.

I hate being screwed over for money, hence why I regularly visit this site but I've come to the conclusion that I was in the wrong, I've paid my dues and learned a valuable lesson. If I happen to bump into an employee of Euro car parks another fine could be on the way though

sarahg1969

mccristo wrote: »

If I had been going to PC world I wouldn't have seen the parking sign, theres one on a pedestrian walkway at the opposite end of the car park, I happened to use that way as it lead to the library.

I hate being screwed over for money, hence why I regularly visit this site but I've come to the conclusion that I was in the wrong, I've paid my dues and learned a valuable lesson. If I happen to bump into an employee of Euro car parks another fine could be on the way though

You were not in the wrong!!!!! It was in invoice, not a fine. The likelihood of them pursuing you for payment through the courts (only the county court, ear in mind) is negligible. And if they DID (which they wouldn't in all reality) they would not win a properly defended case.

How could they find the driver? The DVLA does not hold details of drivers of vehicles; only registered keepers. The RK is under no obligation to divulge the information or to pay the invoice.

They cannot issue a penalty under contract law.

They can claim for damages under contract law, which would be limited to their losses. In a free car park, this is NIL.


Trespass does not come into the matter - the driver did not specifically receive notice that he was not entitled to enter on to the land.


Please, please, please tell your friends about this scam (because that's what it is) and remember if you ever receive one of these invoices again, DO NOT PAY!!!!!

taxiphil

^^^^ sarahg1969 is absolutely correct.

I'm dismayed to read that you sent £30 to someone, just because they asked you for it.

You didn't need to pay it.

grayme-m

I was going to ask what they would do if you failed to pay in a pay and display carpark, but presumably they could sue for the amount of payment, hence also costs, etc?

bicycle_repair_man_2

surely if the signs stating the restrictions for parking and the penalties are easily visible then the penalty charge is legal and justified?

Bamber19

Not necessarily, I've given this example in the past (and without getting into a trivial conversation about ownership of this site, if that's where you want to go, assume i'm Martin for a minute) but, This message is to notify you that in reading this message you accept the terms of this message, namely that a fee of £20 is payable to me by anyone who reads this message. Seems to fit your criteria, easily visible, clear, do you feel like you owe me £20? Is my demand for it legal and justified. Aside from this the fact that a term is present does not make it legal or justified. We have the Unfair Contract Terms Act which deals with this.