How can people be so greedy?

PBA

Personally I think university is overrated. Only the few who get good degrees and get accepted onto the graduate schemes of big companies get the benefit, the others just end up going for the same jobs 18 year old school leavers are going for on the same money.

ginger

stevie 1 - i'll agree to disagree. When you are 18 about to go to uni I don't think its reasonable to expect to think that far ahead. I think we have go off point from the OP's original question for which I apologise, but I've enjoyed the debate.

L

PasturesNew

If the OP spent a bit more time reading instead of posting, he might realise that he will be able to afford a house in about 2-3 years without the big ticket attached to it.

aztec21

Ginger - The reason they encourage them to go into further education is so that they will become more employable and less likely to end up on the dole.

Gingernutmeg

I think there are a lot of generalisations in this thread. I graduated last year as a mature student, paid for myself through uni and have no debt. I went to uni as a mature student because I couldn't afford to go at 18, and my family couldn't afford to support me there either. Oddly enough, I didn't go to uni because I didn't know what else to do, or because I thought I was 'entitled' to a degree, but because it was a sensible decision for me. I graduated at the top of my class with a First class degree, so no, I don't think I've wasted my time.

I come from a very rural area in the north of England. My family live in a very beautiful village but I couldn't afford to stay there. There are NO jobs available in that area - well not real jobs with a living wage. I could do seasonal work in catering (indeed I did do that for many years) but it's not sustainable, not rewarding and not something you can actually live on. The average wage in my home 'area' is less than £16,000 pa. The two bed terrace next to my parent's house sold for £330,000 last year (incidentally, it was sold as a holiday cottage ...). If I'd stayed there, I would NEVER be able to afford my own home, and I doubt that I'd ever be able to earn over £20,000 pa. By going to university, I found a way out of crap jobs and even 'crapper' prospects. So, for all of these people who say that university is a waste, please look beyond your own situations, and stop criticising 'students' as though we're all some homogenous body who lives on booze, wears designer clothes and doesn't realise the value of money. That's ignorant, and simply isn't true.

I do think that the current situation is unfair, and I think that everyone who feels that has a right to express that on an internet forum without being flamed. The reality is that it's not nice to live in rented accommodation, with few rights and even less security. If you're lucky, you get a good landlord. More likely you'll get an indifferent one, or a bad one. People want to buy because they like to know that they can stay somewhere for longer than six months, can paint a wall any colour they like, can own a pet and don't have to be 'inspected' by some landlord or letting agent who isn't doing their job properly anyway. Oh, and people tend to like getting repairs done in a reasonable time. I'll probably get flamed for saying this from all the LLs on this board, but this board is NOT representative of real life. No-one's going to post on here admitting to be a crap landlord, are they? (Or a crap tenant for that matter lol). The reality is that I don't have the same opportunities as my parent's generation in terms of home ownership, and I don't have the same rights to a secure tenancy that they did - seems like I've got a raw deal just because I was born a few years to late to take advantage of cheap and secure housing. I'm not moaning about it, I'm just doing my best to work and save and I hope that one day I'll own my own home. I don't expect anyone to 'give' me anything, but don't flame 'us' for pointing out that in real terms, it's much harder for young people nowadays.

Microstar_2

I have much sympathy with the original poster. I am one of those middle-aged people who has benefited greatly from a free education and rising property prices.
I came from a very humble background, went to a rough (but basically 'good') school, got an excellent free education with full grant, stepped into a well-paid job and now own several houses outright - and I can look forward to a good final-salary pension. Life is rosier than I could ever have expected.
Having older teenagers myself, I can see how the young people of this country are being betrayed. The government are pushing for a 50% participation rate in higher education - this is in response to pressure from the CBI (who presumably want to ensure a large pool of graduate labour). There is tremendous pressure on youngsters (from schools and colleges) to go on to university and take on the debt, I see this with my own son. Many will effectively be 'paying their own dole money' for three years, because 50% of the jobs out there are sure as hell not 'graduate jobs' - its a con trick.
Non-graduate employment is also under a lot of pressure from immigrant labour (again, something the CBI push hard for) - a large pool of cheap and 'flexible' labour keeps pay down for those at the bottom of the pile. For example my own daughter wants to go into hairdressing, she was mad keen, but has found that the local college is running special courses for new EU immigrants to train them in hairdressing and English language. Very worthy, but dispiriting for my daughter to find that the pool of qualified hairdressers will soon be much larger than hitherto.

For the new graduate life is not that rosy. Big debts (£30k not unusual), high house prices (rent or buy), and then being told that if they want a pension they should save some massive proportion of their income. I think my generation has effectively 'pulled up the ladder', hasn't it?

aztec21

Gingernutmeg - As you said you got a first class degree without getting into debt so that was obviously a good decision for you. However someone who gets into 30k of debt and comes out with a poor degree may not find it so worthwhile.

eltawater

(Apologies to all, but I felt compelled to register just to respond to this topic)

Neas,

First of all, congratulations on your graduation and your engagement to your fiancee. (no sarcasm intended).

Secondly, welcome to the real world.
Good grief, put the rattle down, get a little perspective on your life.

Your graduation and your subsequent employment in a role with a good starting salary gives you a good foundation towards your future career, earning potential and ability to buy your own home.

However, that's all it is, a start. Were you somehow under the impression that the bit of paper awarding you a degree also magically entitled you to an instant affordable home?

What on earth were you doing during your spare time at uni? Many people work every spare moment they can get in between lectures and study periods in an effort to reduce their student loans.

You're smart enough to realise that house prices at the moment are out of your financial reach, and that any thin margin you might have would leave you shafted if interest rates go the wrong way. What you need to do is stop whinging about how hard life is going to be for you both just to get onto the property ladder, and just bloody get on with it.

Saving like mad for a deposit is a good idea and it's something you will be doing for a while.

It takes time, but the more sacrifices you're willing to make, the quicker you should hit your deposit target.

Unless you somehow manage to wake up tomorrow as an instant millionaire, the road to your own home takes a little while longer. A graduate salary doesn't automatically put you into a position as being a first time buyer. Tough luck, but that's how it is.

700 pounds a month is not a lot of mortgage to pay if your combined income reduces this to a more manageable percentage of your outgoings. This might not seem realistic right now, but there are many things you can do to get to achieve that.

Don't earn enough at the moment? Work hard, gain valuable experience, move up the career ladder.

Deposit building too slowly? Look at what else you can cut out of your outgoings each month. Yes, that does mean value products, yes it does mean no social life and no expenditure. This is all worth it in the long run *IF* you keep ploughing back the savings you make into your deposit fund.

Can't afford the house prices in your area? Look at other areas, don't be afraid to move outside of your comfort zone, and be realistic about what you can afford.

Above all, have PATIENCE. In 2-3 years time, you might well accumulate what you need for your deposit and your moving costs. Hopefully in that time, you will also have both earned some moves up the career ladder and be bringing more money home each month. You should then find yourselves in a much more comfortable position to find your first home, with a big enough deposit and enough leeway in your income to tide you over if you lose 50% of the monthly earnings due to unforeseen circumstances.

There are no immediate solutions, there are no get rich quick schemes (which work, afaik). There's just a few years of hard graft, hard saving and above all being patient.

Take it from someone who graduated in 2001 smack bang in the middle of the dotbomb bubble bursting, starting on a 19k salary in london (luxury! I hear the masses cry), typing from a home bought in 2006 with a repayment mortgage of over 1000 pounds a month. It's been tough all the way, but boy was it worth it

Good luck

Gingernutmeg

aztec21 wrote: »

Gingernutmeg - As you said you got a first class degree without getting into debt so that was obviously a good decision for you. However someone who gets into 30k of debt and comes out with a poor degree may not find it so worthwhile.

I agree with you there - a lot of young people are effectively being forced into debt because alternatives to a degree are simply not addressed in schools. However this isn't the fault of the young people who head off to uni - it's more to do with the snobbery we have about vocational training in this country, and the fact that industry has shifted the responsibility for vocational training onto the government. It's all very well to criticise vocational degrees, or sneer at what a lot of people call 'mickey mouse' courses, but in lots of cases, these degrees are the only way for young people to get training in certain areas. A degree can also be the only way to get a decent job, despite what people think - I know that if I hadn't of gone to uni, regardless of the degree class I achieved, I would never have been able to get a 'decent' job. You really can't get anywhere with A-Levels.

But I still stand by my point - don't generalise about 'students' or the value of a degree, and don't assume that it's all someone's own fault if they can't afford a house.

redrabbit29

I've kind of relaxed about this subject.

I'm early 20s, and have rented for about 5 years now. I've rented 1 room at £400 a month, but now I'm in a 2 bedroom house for £750 a month. Not bad to be honest - good area and a nice house.

There is advantages and disadvantages, e.g.

Advantages
The feeling that it is all your house
Do what ever you want, paint it, knock a wall down, extend it
Investment maybe?

Disadvantages
If it breaks YOU PAY for it
You're stuck in that one location, if you want to move it's hard to
You take on a HUGE loan for the house

I'm sure there are others, but I'm just saying that renting isn't that bad, just depends on what the estate agents/land lord. For example, I haven't heard from my estate agent for about 9 months, and they are very good at fixing things if required. I am not tied into a massive mortgage, and my money is generally more available as I pay the rent/bills every month without worrying about repairs and things like that.

Would I like my own house - yes. But I think people like my Dad/previous generation who bug me about buying one, don't realise that it's not all it's cracked up to be anymore. The advantages are not that big compared to renting.