How can people be so greedy?

neas

gazzak wrote: »

My parents had to live on beans and toast for a year when they purchased their first home. My wife and me lost over £11,000 after paying a mortgage for 9 years because we bought our first place in 1988.

You have to go through the pain sooner or later. As your jobs get better, your wages rise etc etc then you'll be better off in the long run. You just have to be brave enough to make that first leap. I think people want easy street, life "aint" like that. You've got to make it happen.

But you've also got to 'look before you leap'.

Buying now would be financial suicide . Even with my financials... I can see that now.. a little bit of research doesnt take a rocket scientist to realise our economy is a little tits up at the moment.

Phirefly

GavP wrote: »

I don't understand. Who do you think has created this state of affairs, if not we the people? We are the ones who have become obsesed with consumerism. We (and I use that in a genralised sense) are the ones who've worked long hours and neglected our families and communities. We are the ones who've priced out the young couple down the road by speculating in property. We are the ones who voted in the local councils who sold off all the public space so that greedy property developers could stick tons of little rabbit hutch-sized flats on them. We are the ones who've voted in successive governments that have allowed the banks to go wild with lending in order to create a consumer boom, and encouraged a generation of young people to start their adult lives massively in debt through student loans. We are the ones who call the OP a whiner and tell him to suck it up.

It's not like we're living in North Korea here. Last time I checked we were still at least nominally a democracy, and we still have a bit of responsibility for the state of this country.

Earlier, I considered you to be an articulate individual who had some valid views that simply diverged from my own in places.

Now I just completely disagree. In fact I'm offended.

I flatly REFUSE to take any responsibility for the causes the problems you cite in your post. And I don't see that its my place to sort them out.

I'm financially self-reliant, I do local volunteer work, through my business, I am giving opportunities for paid freelance employment to design students. Plus I'm sure a couple of members of this site would vouch for the fact that I go out of my way to help people where I can. yesterday I took time out of my working day to help a complete stranger I met through the site apply for work experience.

Thats my contribution and you can jog on if you think I'm going to do any more. I don't have time. I didn't vote in any of these monkeys. I don't neglect my family or my community and I'm certainly not obsessed with consumerism, and if someone else is, then its not MY fault.

And to Blue Monkey - I completely sympathise. I know its not easy. Round here I'm made to feel like a leper for buying my house at a peak, but had I not, I wouldn't have a secure base for my business. I wish you every future success.

neas

Phirefly wrote: »

Earlier, I considered you to be an articulate individual who had some valid views that simply diverged from my own in places.

Now I just completely disagree. In fact I'm offended.

I flatly REFUSE to take any responsibility for the causes the problems you cite in your post. And I don't see that its my place to sort them out.

I'm financially self-reliant, I do local volunteer work, through my business, I am giving opportunities for paid freelance employment to design students. Plus I'm sure a couple of members of this site would vouch for the fact that I go out of my way to help people where I can. yesterday I took time out of my working day to help a complete stranger I met through the site apply for work experience.

Thats my contribution and you can jog on if you think I'm going to do any more. I don't have time. I didn't vote in any of these monkeys. I don't neglect my family or my community and I'm certainly not obsessed with consumerism, and if someone else is, then its not MY fault.

And to Blue Monkey - I completely sympathise. I know its not easy. Round here I'm made to feel like a leper for buying my house at a peak, but had I not, I wouldn't have a secure base for my business. I wish you every future success.

Now if you require it for your business then a potential loss of 20% on your house over 5 years would definately be offset by the successfull business.. providing for your family for years to come etc. Yours is a unique situation... my decision comes mainly on the house being a family home and the house itself would be only a negative drain on my income unlike your house where it provides extra income.

Phirefly

Yes I agree, it is pretty unique but it needn't be.

There is only one Phirefly though

Voyager2002

nelly wrote: »

Im not sure I think free education up to 18 then anything after that then you pay it yourself with an interest free loan.

Ive nothing against students and further education quite the oposite in fact.

But generally speaking they are academically gifted and will get a better job than those that arnt. And the tax paid by those who are academically dissadvantaged gets used to pay for those who have the advantage.

It just seems wrong somehow

Like in formular 1......... I think the fastest cars should be at the back of the starting grid

You forget that we all benefit from the presence of skilled people in the workforce.

The most obvious example: I am happy to pay taxes to fund medical education, since that means that when I am ill there will be a trained doctor to treat me.

I also benefit from the education of computer people, since most of the businesses that provide the services I require can only operate efficiently by making use of IT.

Only a small proportion of the benefit from higher education is captured by university graduates (in the form of enhanced salaries). Much of the benefit is reaped by their employers, and by customers of their employers, and so by society generally. It is therefore sensible for society generally to invest in their education.

neas

Voyager2002 wrote: »

You forget that we all benefit from the presence of skilled people in the workforce.

The most obvious example: I am happy to pay taxes to fund medical education, since that means that when I am ill there will be a trained doctor to treat me.

I also benefit from the education of computer people, since most of the businesses that provide the services I require can only operate efficiently by making use of IT.

Only a small proportion of the benefit from higher education is captured by university graduates (in the form of enhanced salaries). Much of the benefit is reaped by their employers, and by customers of their employers, and so by society generally. It is therefore sensible for society generally to invest in their education.

I agree although there has to a be a limit... funding people to do 'doss' courses is a waste of money, golf course management?

This is why there should be a performance based grant system for the 'required' professions. That benefit society etc.

Phirefly

neas wrote: »

That benefit society etc.

Who decides? Smacks of the key workers scheme and thats a big ole mess too.

I'm sure most would consider Graphic Design and Advertising BAhons wasn't the most socially worthy degree to take, but I don't agree that someone studying dentistry should have quailified for more state assistance than I did.

neas

the inverse to your argument is that the multitude of degrees on offer is actually diluting the workforce skills filling the gap with more 'guff' than there was before.

I mean look at the age old universities.. very valued by employers.. oxford and cambridge.. they just have an engineering degree... you cant do aeronautical engineering there.. you have to do a combined one.. but this degree will get you a job almost anywhere .

Phirefly

I'm not suggesting every degree on offer is of equal merit, simply that its dangerous territory to start differentiating on those grounds for the purposes of financing them.

Anyway, getting back to the original thrust of the thread, if you've got such a great degree and job prospects, and 20k in the bank, whats your beef?

MissMoneypenny

Voyager2002 wrote: »

The most obvious example: I am happy to pay taxes to fund medical education, since that means that when I am ill there will be a trained doctor to treat me.

Not at our local surgery there isn't, unless you fit in with the doctors work hours.When we inquired about being one of their patients we were told that:-

• They close their doors 5pm sharp.
• You have to phone on a certain day to get an appointment on a certain day and phone between set times.
• When they have their meetings, they do these during the morning, so their surgery on that day is either cancelled or halved.

My vets is open 24/7.