Cheaper Water Bills Article Discussion

rgoodger

I discovered last year that there were 2 different charges for sewerage with SWW. Sewerage 1 and Sewerage 2. We were on sewarage1. Sewerage 2 is for customers who have soakaways. But, how would you ever know if you had a soakaway?
Our house was built 5 years ago, and after extensive investigation via the builders and their ground workers, it transpired that we had a soakaway, along with the rest of the estate(120 properties). I informed SWW, and after 3 months investigation and without visiting our property they agreed, and offered to repay that years overpayment.
I told them that I,and 120 other property owners, expected repayment back to the day we moved in. After many letters,emails and phone calls, they eventually agreed and have paid back the full amounts.
The worrying thing about this, is that the onus is on the customer to prove the existence of a soakaway. On new builds surely the builders and the Water Companies have a responsiblity to ensure we are billed correctly. Most searches do not provide this information, even though it is on the search form.
According to a large builders site coordinator, SWW automatically charge Sewerage 1 on all new builds and will only change to the correct charge when a cusomer complains(as in our case). This has to be illegal, and Ofwat need to investigate and take action.

rgoodger

As an addition to my post. Is it worth the bother?
Our charges(we are on a meter) will reduce by £50 per year, and our full rebate was almost £250. On our estate of 120 houses it amounted to almost £6000 pa, with rebates approaching £16000 for overpayments.
When people try to get this money back they will get severe resistance. The weight of MSE might be required at some stage, as I believe what is happening is widespread and fraudulent.
The onus is on the customer to prove they do not use the water companies service for Surface Water Removal. A fairer system would be for the Water Companies to prove they remove your Surface Water before making any charges to you.

Cardew

This has been covered many times.

This whole subject is a complete mess!

It isn't illegal and crazy though it may seem it would be illegal for them not to charge for Surface Water Drainage(SWD) as the Water Privatisation Act decreed that the 'default' position would be to charge for SWD.

This is because originally there was no way of knowing which of the 20+ million properties in UK had soakaways or not - most old houses in urban environments did have their surface water from guttering etc enter the sewer. Had they made the default position not to charge SWD who would have volunteered to pay the charge?

However in the last 25 years or so it would be highly unusual for any property to be given planning permission unless they had a soakaway.

Ofwat have backed this stance and if you go to their website you will see their position explained.

Ofwat also back the water companies stance to only backdate rebates to the beginning of the financial year, and give valid reasons why this should be the case. Many people have tried to get it backdated - some have wrongly paid SWD for 20 years or more - and all have failed. The only reason I can think of in your case is the developers of your estate put in a block claim for the 120 houses(normal practice) which wasn't actioned by SWW for some reason. I must say that I am amazed that 120 owners haven't picked up on this issue for 5 years.

It also should be noted that it doesn't matter to the water companies if they charge for SWD or not. Ofwat fix their their revenue, and hence their profit. So if they lose the charges from SWD they simply raise other charges to compensate. e.g. If they lose £1million from SWD charges, they charge all their customers an extra £1million in water/sewerage charges.

Please don't think that I agree with the whole SWD saga, it is obviously a mess and needs to be sorted out. Why should occupants of huge multi-storey flats(with just one roof and precious little land) pay similar charges to other properties? etc etc

rgoodger

Thanks for your reply cardew. It appears that we tend to agree that what is happening is wrong. But I cannot understand your point about everyones bills going up, if people with soakaways are charged correctly.
I am sure if you(and others) were overtaxed by the inland revenue for several years you(and they), quite rightly, would want that corrected. I dont think for one minute you would all let it ride on the basis that it could mean tax rises for everyone.
As consumers, we have right to be charged correctly for what we purchase. If your surface water does not go into the sewerage system, the law should be on the side of the consumer. At present it clearly is not.

Cardew

rgoodger wrote: »

Thanks for your reply cardew. It appears that we tend to agree that what is happening is wrong. But I cannot understand your point about everyones bills going up, if people with soakaways are charged correctly.
I am sure if you(and others) were overtaxed by the inland revenue for several years you(and they), quite rightly, would want that corrected. I dont think for one minute you would all let it ride on the basis that it could mean tax rises for everyone.
As consumers, we have right to be charged correctly for what we purchase. If your surface water does not go into the sewerage system, the law should be on the side of the consumer. At present it clearly is not.

Good Lord! I was not suggesting, or implying, for one moment that people shouldn't apply for a rebate for an incorrect charge - of course they should. However that does mean a minor increase in other charges.

I was making the point that many people wrongly assume that water companies charge incorrectly(and knowingly) for SWD to boost profits(a post with such an accusation last week); and that is not the case.

The fact is that they are mandated to charge for SWD until an exemption from the charge is sought.

Obviously the whole method of charging for SWD is a nonsense; there are so many anomalies.

There is no way 20 million houses can be fairly assessed, and it would be simpler to cease SWD charges and the lost revenue reclaimed in water/sewerage charges.

contribute_good_news

While some nations in the world are lacking of water and need to walk hours to first fountain, like in Africa we in Europe have tendency to waste water despite that fact and fact that money goes from our wallet.I think this kind of information of saving every household should receive it along with some educational information,like the one from Stockholm Water Institute,as water is not something natural for many of the world's citizens.

FB13

Will-2010 wrote: »

Our property has a soakaway - yet when I contacted the water company for a rebate, I was advised this was not possible due to the manner in which water charges were collected i.e. with the community charge. Is this correct ? can the Consumer Council for Water help with complaints in Scotland ? Thanks.

No, CCWater only deals with England and Wales. Since you are in Scotland, you should first call Scottish Water at 0845 601 8855. Unless you are one of the very few people with a meter, your water and wastewater charges are collected with your council tax by the council.

Waterwatch Scotland is the national complaints handling body for Scotland. You can reach them at 0845 601 8855.

stphnstevey

Does anyone know the saving if all your rainwater goes into water butts?

Cardew

stphnstevey wrote: »

Does anyone know the saving if all your rainwater goes into water butts?

Covered many times with regard to Surface Water Drainage - if that is what you mean.

Essentially rain butts don't count and it makes no difference to the charges.

If you are metered, obviously every drop from the butts saves you a little in water and sewerage charges - but bear in mind that a cubic metre is 1,000 litres, so the savings are not substantial.

AJOY_2

Hi - can anyone advise please? We have installed a water pipe to connect to mains on a new build - the trench was approved. The Water Board connected us and put us on a meter. We had a faulty meter. They replaced it. We have since had 2 massive leaks - £10,000 plus in bills! Is it law to stay on a meter or can we have it removed? Is there any experience of writing off such daft bills. We used to pay £35 a month for our young family of 4. We now pay well in excess of £100 for same family, and looking at bill, will be doing so until retirement! THANK YOU!