The Gordon Brown 20% Tax Con.

seven-day-weekend

treliac wrote: »

Self-satisfied, gift of the gab, fantasist comes more readily to my mind.

Agreed, but with leadership skills!

margaretclare

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Hey Margaret! Spotted you in the picture!

Isn't your OH handsome????????!!!

Going to read the rest of the website now.

But must just say, as a lifelong Labour voter with only a few wavers, and one of the people who shed tears of joy when Tony Blair came to power,:o believing in New Labour, this government under Brown is one of the worst I can remember. At least Blair had leadership skills. Flash Gordon has nothing as far as I can see.

I still have a vote in UK Parliamentary Elections although I live in Spain (our son acts as proxy), and I certainly will not be voting for Brown's governmemt.

But I couldn't possibly vote for Dave either, and can't even remember the name of the LibDem one. Don't want to vote for either UKIP or the fascists....so Margaret, I think it will have to be your English Democrats.

Fantastic, 7DWE, and welcome.

Brown has acted as the worst kind of totalitarian dictator in that he has assumed he's going to be in power for ever. He has effectively hamstrung any future government of whatever complexion and has even hamstrung his successor at No. 11, Darling. While Blair was striding the world stage and getting us into unwinnable wars with no exit strategy (where were the 'weapons of mass destruction'?) Brown was beavering away next door at No. 11 altering the tax and benefits system to such an extent that it would take a revolution to change it. I believe - correct me if I'm wrong - that people need enough income to live on, either a living wage or a reasonable pension, and that all these little bits and pieces that Brown has introduced, like tax credits, pension credits, winter fuel etc etc, are just unnecessary - but just try to remove them!! Which may possibly become necessary at some point in the future, who knows. Look at the outcry at present, the free national travel and some people not having received their passes as if they were all going to take extensive journeys on 1st April - this is a concession, not a right. One of the few Labour MPs that I have any time for, Frank Field, was asked by Blair to 'think the unthinkable' about reforming the benefits system. He produced a report which was subsequently sunk without trace, probably because, although Blair had asked for it, Brown didn't like it.

We were talking about this a few nights ago at a local EDP meeting. The tax system was good at taking money from people, the benefits system was good at paying out money to people. Brown has confused the two, giving HMRC the job of administering the tax credits system, WTC and CTC. We've had heartrending tales of people being given a few thousand pounds and then, not long after, being told they were overpaid and asked for it back, which people usually can't do, because they used that money for living costs!

Speaking of living costs, in this tax year DH and I will be paying £65 a month more than we were. That's increases in council tax, gas, electricity, and BT. Heaven only knows what we'd be paying for gas if we hadn't had the new boiler a year ago, which was replaced because the heating control was jammed and it was using too much gas. DH spoke to the provider yesterday and was told that the wholesale cost of gas has increased by 60% over the past year. This is the result of us now having to buy it in the international market, not get it from the North Sea.

So, although our tax allowances have gone up and we're no longer paying tax on any of our income, normal living costs have gone up too. I'm thankful that we're no longer paying on the mortgage, and I can hardly imagine what it's like for those who have a mortgage and all the rest. Labour has certainly been of no help to ordinary people although, like you 7DWE, I shed tears of joy on 1st May 1997.

Errata

According to Rory Bremner, Brown is like some old uncle who's been hammering away in his shed for ten years but when you go and look through the window you can't actually see he's made anything useful.

Farway

Whilst I agree about the Brown thing, surely on this board we are old enough to remember 3 million plus unemployed, riots in streets, factory after factory closing, 15% bank rates and 13% mortgage rates under Tories, or was it all a bad dream on my part?

seven-day-weekend

Oh yes, I definitely remember that.

But it's not much, if any better, now, is it?

Just different things have gone wrong, like the Health and Education Services. No affordable housing. Couples having to farm their children out in nurseries because they can't afford to stay at home and look after them. Feral teenagers on the streets. Nanny State which prosecutes you if you eat an apple whilst driving, use the wrong dustbin or smoke where you shouldn't but takes away all disciplinary measures from teachers and law enforcers.

And to get back OT, many people much poorer under this new tax 'adjustment'.

dwileflunker

Farway wrote: »

Whilst I agree about the Brown thing, surely on this board we are old enough to remember 3 million plus unemployed, riots in streets, factory after factory closing, 15% bank rates and 13% mortgage rates under Tories, or was it all a bad dream on my part?

Yes! But that was then and this is now. The problem about being able to remember these sort of things is that it blinkers you for what might happen in the future. The past is the past and is no guarantee that it will happen in the future.

treliac

dwileflunker wrote: »

Yes! But that was then and this is now. The problem about being able to remember these sort of things is that it blinkers you for what might happen in the future. The past is the past and is no guarantee that it will happen in the future.

Whilst all of these comments are right, how then do we judge our best future options?

All parties say the right thing at the right time, when they are trying to tempt the voter. What they then do, given power, seems to bear little relation - they spin themselves out of it and do just what they were really going to do, or not going to do, anyway.

No wonder the public have so little faith and just don't know where a vote will be well placed.

What we need, if such will ever exist again, is an honest, earnest, charismatic and strong leader who understands what the indigenous people of this country care about, is able to make tough decisions where needed and is prepared to deliver on expectations of a better future for Britain.

dwileflunker

treliac wrote: »

No wonder the public have so little faith and just don't know where a vote will be well placed.

What we need, if such will ever exist again, is an honest, earnest, charismatic and strong leader who understands what the indigenous people of this country care about, is able to make tough decisions where needed and is prepared to deliver on expectations of a better future for Britain.

Unfortunately the arrival in recent years of the career politician, which the vast majority of politicians of all parties now are, means that decisions will continue to be made not for the good of the country but simply to enhance their own shortsighted political careers. I cannot see the type of person you describe ever getting into power because the first thing they would have to do is sort out an inefficient parliament and it's politicians. Those already there simply won't allow it to happen.

It's sad that the politicians of the last 20 years or so have taken this country to it's present depths and I regret I can't see it ever being turned around in the way you suggest. Only an extreme right wing or left wing regime would would get rid of all the stupid laws that now bog us down and, the reality is that it is just not going to happen. The only other thing to bring them all to their senses is another world war and I fear that is probably a more likely scenario - heaven forbid.

Will the last person to leave the country please turn the lights out !

treliac

Push the public too far and I fear the door may be opened to extremism.

treliac

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

and can't even remember the name of the LibDem one.

It's Nick 'I'm a stallion' Clegg