PCN for box Junction

Conor_3

flang wrote: »

Remember though yellow box markings are only legal within a traffic light junction, so if the box is not within vicinity of traffic lights its not legal.

WRONG. Where do you get that idea?

anewman

I wonder if any people have been sent these fines who have perhaps been slightly in the box, but not obstructed traffic. Surely it's the obstruction of traffic that matters and not having some tyres on some yellow lines?

bert&ernie

I don't wish to sound trite, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

You park on yellow lines, you can get booked.
You wont get off just because you were only partially on the yellow.

same principle applies in the box junction

flang

Conor wrote: »

WRONG. Where do you get that idea?

Chaper 5 of the Traffic Signals Manual

Section 12.3
The Directions do not permit the use of yellow box markings at roundabouts unless traffic entering the box is controller by signals at all times, nor should they be used where traffic streams merge, as it will not be clear which stream has precedence when a gap appears.

12.9 Yellow box markings may be used outside police, file ambulance stations or hosiptals only where there is an access road forming a junction with the main road, where vehicles exit directly onto the carriageway a KEEP CLEAR or SCHOOL should be used.

SPECIAL CASES
12.13
Box markings are sometimes effective in combination with priority signs to break queues through an exceptionally pinch point and to enable an opposing flow to continue without the unncessary delay, the marking may be used for this purpose only if the carriageway width is less than 4.5m at the narrowest point.

cajef

flang wrote: »

Remember though yellow box markings are only legal within a traffic light junction, so if the box is not within vicinity of traffic lights its not legal.

I would suggest you read the highway code :-

From the introduction

'Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’. '

Rule 174

Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see 'Road markings'). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.

flang

I was making a point saying that many local authorities have illegal box markings however still fine drivers for stopping in them.
The highway code does not detail if these markings are legal it only details how they should be used!!
The Highway code also indicates that you cannot park on double yellow lines however if the lines were laid without a road traffic order they are never legal and can never be enforced!

cajef

flang wrote: »

I was making a point saying that many local authorities have illegal box markings however still fine drivers for stopping in them.

Well I have just re-read your original post and I cannot seem to find any reference to you making a point of saying anything about local authorities having illegal box markings, just a sweeping statement to the effect that 'yellow box markings are only legal within a traffic light junction, so if the box is not within vicinity of traffic lights its not legal.'

Which is giving completely incorrect information, and would you please tell how when you approach a box junction you know whether it is legal or not.

flang

cajef wrote: »

Well I have just re-read your original post and I cannot seem to find any reference to you making a point of saying anything about local authorities having illegal box markings, just a sweeping statement to the effect that 'yellow box markings are only legal within a traffic light junction, so if the box is not within vicinity of traffic lights its not legal.'

Which is giving completely incorrect information, and would you please tell how when you approach a box junction you know whether it is legal or not.

The OP wanted to know how he appealed againt a fine for stopping in a box marking.
Local authorities have a lot of illegal box markings and fine drivers unlawfully, I mentioned that box markings that are not within a traffic signal junction are illegal. the OP could easily dispute the fine if this is the case.
All this is found in chapter 5 of the traffic signs manual and not the highway code!

Bob63

flang wrote: »

I mentioned that box markings that are not within a traffic signal junction are illegal. the OP could easily dispute the fine if this is the case.
All this is found in chapter 5 of the traffic signs manual

Where does it say in the traffic signs manual that boxes are only legal at junctions controlled by a traffic signal? The only mention of legality in conjunction with traffic signals is on roundabouts.

cajef

flang wrote: »

, I mentioned that box markings that are not within a traffic signal junction are illegal.

Once again you are making an incorrect and misleading statement, they are NOT illegal, get your facts straight.:rolleyes: