Cca Requests Updates Please

gargrave50

Hi scarednshakin,

I'm no expert, but I don't think this calls for anything other than a letter stating they are of the opinion that they have discharged their obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, however they have sent you a reply card and a list of current terms and conditions which do not equate to an enforceable CCA. Only my opinion, but hopefully someone can concur with me on this one

scarednshakin

Thanks Pebbles88 n Gargrave50 just wanted to know that I was right and this was not an enforceable CCA. Start to doubt myself, any ideas how to respond to Monument? Thanks again

Weekend_warrior

Hi All,
I'm looking for some advise and I am sorry if I have posted in the wrong area of the site.
I am having a real hard time with my Mortgage provider Bank of Scotland.
The story is back in 2004 I was forced to give up work to care for my Wife, I was getting my mortgage intrest payed by the D.S.S. but I had a shortfall between the D.S.S. payments and the amount of my mortgage so I agreed to pay £100 per month which I found a real struggle anyway my wife died in May 2009 and as I was on my own the D.S.S. payments have changed so I got a fresh letter from Bank of Scotland saying I had a shortfall of £20 per month.
I phoned the bank to query this amount as up to this point I was paying £100, the bank said in May there was no need to set up a standing order for £20 per month as the would take the £20 of the £2734.87 I had accumilated to my account as a result of my £100 per month payments.
I asked why they had let me run this amount up when I was struggling to pay the £100 per month and they should have informed me that £100 per month was to much, I got the usual waffle, I then asked for the overpayment to be returned and they said no as the D.S.S. could ask for their money back at any time, I stressed that the £100 per month was my personal money and not D.S.S. money but they wouldn't move their position.
I contacted the D.S.S. who said that even if major fraud was proven against me the D.S.S. would reclaim the mortgage intrest payments from me and not the bank.(they also said the banks statement was rubbish)
I wrote a letter to the bank back in June asking for them to reconsider their position and told them of my finding with the D.S.S., I also asked them if they are going to continue to hold my overpayment as a sort of deposit/retainer does this mean that everyone who is having their mortgage intrest payed by the D.S.S. must lodge the same deposit/retainer?
I to date have been given a real runaround from not receiving the original letter even though I have the proof of delivery, I phoned in June for a update as I had heard nothing and was told no letter had been received I was given a number to fax a copy to, I left it a week and phone and was again told the fax wasn't received and no record of my last call was logged on my account, I was again asked to fax my original letter to a secure collections number which I did.
At the beginning of August I received a letter saying they have appointed a senior member of their team to look into the issues I have raised and would be back in contact no later than 4 weeks.
On 8th Sept I received another letter from the bank saying they need another 4 weeks.
Where do I go from here?
Am I right or wrong to demand the overpayment back?
Why are they dragging their heels?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

W.W.

GeorgeUK

SnS - If they have sent you a copy of a rapid reply card (what's that?) and a copy of the T&C, they have not fulfilled their LEGAL obligations under the Act.

They are required to provide a 'true copy' of an executed agreement.
This means that while they are not required to provide a photocopy of the original document are no longer need to supply the signatures that would be on the agreement, all the other prescribed erms must be on the document and be in the required prescribed form.

I do not know what this rapid reply card has on it but if all the terms are not on it then what they have provided is not a properly executed copy of the agreement and are therefore still required to produce this before they can enforce the debt.

1. Section 78(1) does not require us to provide you with an exact copy or photocopy of the agreement you signed.

Okay, they do not need to supply a photocopy or a copy with the signatures - they are allowed to produce a reproduction.

We are not required to provide you with a copy showing your name or your signature

Ooooh, so close. They don't need to supply a copy showing your signature - your name is one of the other prescribed terms and is required.

and no section of the CCA imposes upon us to retain or produce a copy of your agreement showing your signature.

Ummm, okay - fair enough. The CCA does not imposes upon them the requirement to produce a copy with your signature (thanks to the 1983 amendments) and they are not required by the CCA to retain a copy. They would however need this should they ever try to go to court for a judge to see.

2. Section 78(1) requires us to provide you with a copy of your agreement which looks like the one you signed but which has been updated to contain the terms and conditions which currently apply to your agreement (rather than those which applied at the time you signed the agreement).

Ah, the familiar smell of DCA bullshit. They are required to provide a properly executed copy with the prescribed terms and in the prescribed form as per:
61.—(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless
(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms...

s.127(3) makes the account unenforceable. It states that if the agreement does not have all the prescribed terms then a court should not allow the debt to be enforced.

The copy we provided you with, is in the appropriate format and does include all of the current terms of your agreement with us.

Current terms are not adequate - if the agreement refers to section 3 for charges and section 3 of these T&C is interest, how can this show what was agreed to?

GeorgeUK

Hi WW

Have you made an official complaint about this?
If you have and they have not provided a response within 8 weeks, you should be making a formal complaint to the FSA and let them chase the bank.

Did you get that response in writing from the DSS? If not, could you write to them requesting comment on what the bank has told you?

scarednshakin

Hi GeorgeUK thanks so much for your reply, it did make me smile :rotfl:. The Rapid Reply Card has name and address on it, dob annual income, tel no. Then there is a declaration and then a place to sign it. It is basically an abbreviated application form. I have already sent an account in disupte letter and the letter I got yesterday was the response. So do I send out another account in disupte letter along with pointing out the facts you commented on? Thanks

GeorgeUK

I'm not sure to be honest SnS. They're not amatuers and should know that the terms are not on this so will not consitute a CCA - not sure it's worth spending the money on the postage.

I don't think you'll get any different reply from them so it may just be a waste of your time and effort. Have you stopped making payments to them? Who was the original creditor for this debt - have you sent them a SAR?

Weekend_warrior

GeorgeUK wrote: »

Hi WW

Have you made an official complaint about this?
If you have and they have not provided a response within 8 weeks, you should be making a formal complaint to the FSA and let them chase the bank.

Did you get that response in writing from the DSS? If not, could you write to them requesting comment on what the bank has told you?

Hi George uk,
Thanks again for the reply, yes I made an official complaint but as I have said my original complaint letter was sent in on 5th June and signed for 6th June, but the bank is only taking my complaint from 5th August when I had to fax a duplicate copy of my original complaint letter. ( so when do I take the 8 week 's from June or August?)
Anyway if it's August the 8 weeks are up tomorrow so what now?, do I contact the Financial Ombusman?
I didn't get the quote from the D.S.S. in writing, but it is fact!
Do you think I have a chance?, as I need to know I'm in the right before I proceed.
Do I phone the bank and let them know I intend to go to the Financial Ombusman or do I keep them in the dark about this?

W.W.

scarednshakin

GeorgeUK wrote: »

I'm not sure to be honest SnS. They're not amatuers and should know that the terms are not on this so will not consitute a CCA - not sure it's worth spending the money on the postage.

I don't think you'll get any different reply from them so it may just be a waste of your time and effort. Have you stopped making payments to them? Who was the original creditor for this debt - have you sent them a SAR?

The original debt was with Monument, I have stopped payments, did not SAR them just did a CCA request. I will send out SAR to them tomorrow and see what happens next. Will let you know next installment!!

GeorgeUK

WW, might be worth sending the bank a letter just to light a fire under them. If you hear nothing then time to go to the regulators. I would tr to get the DSS's position on this in writing though - you can never have too much ammo.

SnS - if you do write another letter to them (not the SAR), then it would be best to have it quote the legislation so that the can't wriggle out of anything. If they state that they don't have a copy of the original CCA, that would be great as no court can enforce something that doesn't exist. This is hopefully what the SAR will let us know.