Cca Requests Updates Please

Merlinexcalibur

Yes, CCA went to the DCA as I said. And they are also outside the 12 day limit now by at least a week. So are in default, of course. So I don't have to write anything, then? And, yes I did answer my own question there but sometimes I get unsure about things. :D

10past6

Merlinexcalibur wrote: »

So I don't have to write anything, then?

Correct.

And if the OC writes to you, you can ignore it as you no longer have dealings with them, as per the NOA (Notice of assignment)

Merlinexcalibur

Thanks. I normally ignore them.

MS_Dolphin

10past6 wrote: »

No it does not.

The T&Cs they've sent could apply to any Tom, !!!!!!, or Harry, you want a copy of the agreement that applies to YOU, i.e what shows your credit limit / APR / Monthly payments.

So does this mean - unless they show me something more specific - that I potentially have a case?

What do I do now, wait until the original 12+2 deadline expires and send the 12+2 letter, with an additional comment along the lines of what you've included above?

Thanks again

10past6

MS_Dolphin wrote: »

that I potentially have a case?

Ms Dolphin

What type of debt is this? CC / Loan / O/D?

How old is the debt?

MS_Dolphin

10past6 wrote: »

Ms Dolphin

What type of debt is this? CC / Loan / O/D?

How old is the debt?

It's a Barclaycard visa. I've had the card for a long time, exactly how long I don't know but the 1993 date they say would be about right.

I've been paying on the outstanding balance on a regular basis.

10past6

MS_Dolphin wrote: »

I've been paying on the outstanding balance on a regular basis.

1993, chances are they don't have your agreement.

The choice is your Ms Dolphin what you do from here.

You can either refuse to pay until they issue a VALID CCA

Or you can send the following letter

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

Account Number: XXX

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;
As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

The regulations state:
(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-
(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.
It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

Yours faithfully

PRINT ONLY - DON'T SIGN YOUR NAME

MS_Dolphin

10past6 wrote: »

1993, chances are they don't have your agreement.

The choice is your Ms Dolphin what you do from here.

You can either refuse to pay until they issue a VALID CCA

Or you can send the following letter

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

Account Number: XXX

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;
As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

The regulations state:
(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-
(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.
It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

Yours faithfully

PRINT ONLY - DON'T SIGN YOUR NAME

Thanks,

I'm trying to get my head around this.

What they have sent me is a copy of their terms and conditions. It was stamped "1993 Barclaycard Terms and Conditions".

I 'assumed' that this was their T&C's applicable at the time. Are you saying that this is not the case.

From the above letter, does this mean that what they send, doesn't have to have my signature on it, but does have to have specifics like, credit limit and APR. Does it have to have my name on it?

I know there are lots of questions, but this is a new area to me and I don't know the rules. I've also got 6 other CCA requests in the post so I'd like to understand what the specific requirements are that they have to provide.

Thanks again,

Dolphin

10past6

MS_Dolphin wrote: »

I 'assumed' that this was their T&C's applicable at the time. Are you saying that this is not the case.

Yes

MS_Dolphin wrote: »

but does have to have specifics like, credit limit and APR. Does it have to have my name on it?
Yes

MS_Dolphin wrote: »

I've also got 6 other CCA requests in the post so

Deal with one CCA at a time, it's easier to remain focused and in control of the paper trail.

MS_Dolphin

I keep having to say thanks.

What makes you believe what they have sent is not the T&C's applicable at the time?

Also, where can I find a list of the specific things they have to include in their response?