Cca Requests Updates Please

10past6

blueforyou wrote: »

Hello - would anyone be willing to share a complaint letter/template that they have used/seen to complain to trading standards about a DCA not complying with CCA requests?

There's no need to complain, unless they're giving you harassment since your request.

holley

Yes they are I have sent them a letter copy from this site stating they havent sent me a CCA and that the account is now in dispute today received 3 letters 1 saying they dont acknowledge the account is in dispute and that they have sent term and conditions which is all I need, 2 a Notice of default and 3 a Notice of sums in arrears - all in seperate envelopes!! So am I entitled to complain because of these letters - this is all new to me and I feel a little out of my depth!!

10past6

holley wrote: »

So am I entitled to complain because of these letters

Yes you can complain

Your letter should be short and simple

Copy of your CCA request

Copies of the documentation that's been sent to you.

Bazza66

holley wrote: »

Yes they are I have sent them a letter copy from this site stating they havent sent me a CCA and that the account is now in dispute today received 3 letters 1 saying they dont acknowledge the account is in dispute and that they have sent term and conditions which is all I need, 2 a Notice of default and 3 a Notice of sums in arrears - all in seperate envelopes!! So am I entitled to complain because of these letters - this is all new to me and I feel a little out of my depth!!

Holley - you need to send something like this (found it in this thread posted by blind-as-bat) - modify as required.
And remember DO NOT sign!!!





Dear Sir or Madam,


Account no

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974


Thank you for your letter dated ........, the contents of which are noted

Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On ......... I requested that ........... supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date ........... have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to .............., nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement
(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a) the state of the account, and
(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and
(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.
(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;


Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.


To clarify S.61(1) states

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and
(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and
(c) The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

1.Number of repayments;
2.Amount of repayments;
3.Frequency and timing of repayments;
4.Dates of repayments;
5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ............... become compliant with my request. As ................ are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file
All collection activities cease with immediate effect until ............. comply with my request from .date........... or such time as a court makes an enforcement order
In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

What I Require.

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

No other correspondence will be accepted

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful


I trust this out lines the situation

Regards

10past6

Bazza66 wrote: »

Holley - you need to send something like this

I personally wouldn't send them anything, they've had your CCA request as per this:

holley wrote: »

1 saying they dont acknowledge the account is in dispute

Don't waste any more time or money writing to them.

Bazza66

But the way I have read it is that they have sent the T&C's and therefore they are saying they have conformed to the CCA request. Hence you need to send that the letter saying what they have sent does not conform to CCA request and therefore the account is still in default.

I could be wrong!

10past6

Bazza66 wrote: »

But the way I have read it is that they have sent the T&C's and therefore they are saying they have conformed to the CCA request

Don't be fooled by them, this is a common stalling tactic used, they sure as hell know what as CCA request is, if they don't, they shouldn't be holding a credit licence.

Bazza66

10past6 wrote: »

Don't be fooled by them, this is a common stalling tactic used, they sure as hell know what as CCA request is, if they don't, they shouldn't be holding a credit licence.

I appreciate that 10past6. But wouldnt you send the letter just to cover yourself - we all know DCA's know the rules and try it on. But I would have thought it better to send the letter to let them know you know what you are on about. If it went to court it wouldnt hurt to show the judge that you have had to point out to the DCA the rules of a CCA request?

I bow to your superior knowledge and can see your point. They know its in default so why waste time on telling them.

10past6

The CCA request cleary states they have 12 days to comply, whatever they reply with is on there heads, it's not for the consumer to point out there errors.

If ever it got to litigation status, as an LIP (Litigation in person) you're not supposed to know the law, therefore pointing out there errors before hand would serve no purpose.

The onus is on them to prove the account is not in dispute.

kel123_2

10 past 6

there are two schools of thought. You seem to be in one camp and I am in another. Having done it my way and succeded obviously I am bias but I can say I have read of others doing it your way and they have succeded. So it is the way you feel more comfortable with!

What is not in question however is that by not invoking their complaints procedure, it puts you at a disadvantage further down the line. Officicially the fsa cannot act until you have exhausted the complaints procedure. By asking for your CCA does not put the account in dispute. By them not complying does, but in the case of them not supplying the correct or insurfient information by wording the complaint to include 'now in dispute' etc the complaint then puts the account in dispute. Sometimes are expectations under s77/78 falls short but they, in hessance could have complied. If it is a DCA it is my experience that they then write and tell you that they have returned it to the OC. And I strongly disagree that the onus is on them to prove the account is in dispute? HOW DO THEY KNOW IF YOU DO NOT TELL THEM?

Broken Hearted

it is nice to finally have you on our side of the fence:beer:

Kel