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So what is BTL? Finders Keepers?
SquatNow
Posts: 2,285 Forumite
A strange ethical question for you, relating to housing, in a short story:
A man, who works as a fireman, and his nurse wife are walking down a street with their 2 children. Despite dedicating their lives to helping the community, they currently have no-where to live.
They see an empty, run-down, 3 bedroomed semi-detached house and approach it. Being tired after a long day at work, the couple decide to spend the night in the empty house.
As they approach the door, a scruffy man steps out from behind a tree and blocks the doorway. "You have to pay me" says the man. "Why?" questions the fireman. "Because you do. You have to pay me if you want to go inside."
"But why do we have to pay you" asks the nurse. "Because" replies the scruffy man, "if you don't I'll wont let you in. Then the police will come and arrest you for vagrancy, and social services will take your children away".
"Oh no, we don't want that", says the Fireman. "How much do we have to pay you?". "Half your income" says the scruffy man.
"Half our income!" exclaims the nurse. "That's extortionate! What gives you the right to demand that money from us!". The scruffy man grins and says "I got here first, see. Finders Keepers. See all these houses on the street... I got to all these first. So you gotta pay me else you'll freeze to death... it's gonna be cold tonight so you have no choice".
The fireman thinks for a moment and then asks "how about if I give you a quarter of my wage... it's a fair amount and it's better for you as otherwise you'll get nothing".
"nah thanks" says the scruffy man. "It's no skin off my nose if ya freeze to death". The scruffy man grins and steps closer to the fireman: "Don't cost me nuffin if the place is empty, so why should I care? Pay up or freeze!"
The couple think and chat for a while and decide they have no choice as otherwise their children really will freeze to death. They give the landlord his money and in exchange he steps aside and lets them live.
The ethical question is this:
Given that the scruffy man was happy to put make the family spend the night on the street and possibly freeze to death, if he went to hospital should the nurse treat him? If he crashes his porche into a tree, should the fireman cut him out or leave him to die.
A man, who works as a fireman, and his nurse wife are walking down a street with their 2 children. Despite dedicating their lives to helping the community, they currently have no-where to live.
They see an empty, run-down, 3 bedroomed semi-detached house and approach it. Being tired after a long day at work, the couple decide to spend the night in the empty house.
As they approach the door, a scruffy man steps out from behind a tree and blocks the doorway. "You have to pay me" says the man. "Why?" questions the fireman. "Because you do. You have to pay me if you want to go inside."
"But why do we have to pay you" asks the nurse. "Because" replies the scruffy man, "if you don't I'll wont let you in. Then the police will come and arrest you for vagrancy, and social services will take your children away".
"Oh no, we don't want that", says the Fireman. "How much do we have to pay you?". "Half your income" says the scruffy man.
"Half our income!" exclaims the nurse. "That's extortionate! What gives you the right to demand that money from us!". The scruffy man grins and says "I got here first, see. Finders Keepers. See all these houses on the street... I got to all these first. So you gotta pay me else you'll freeze to death... it's gonna be cold tonight so you have no choice".
The fireman thinks for a moment and then asks "how about if I give you a quarter of my wage... it's a fair amount and it's better for you as otherwise you'll get nothing".
"nah thanks" says the scruffy man. "It's no skin off my nose if ya freeze to death". The scruffy man grins and steps closer to the fireman: "Don't cost me nuffin if the place is empty, so why should I care? Pay up or freeze!"
The couple think and chat for a while and decide they have no choice as otherwise their children really will freeze to death. They give the landlord his money and in exchange he steps aside and lets them live.
The ethical question is this:
Given that the scruffy man was happy to put make the family spend the night on the street and possibly freeze to death, if he went to hospital should the nurse treat him? If he crashes his porche into a tree, should the fireman cut him out or leave him to die.
Bankruptcy isn't the worst that can happen to you. The worst that can happen is your forced to live the rest of your life in abject poverty trying to repay the debts.
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Comments
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surely the ethical question is why do think all BTLers are inherantly evil!?:happyhear0
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melancholly wrote: »surely the ethical question is why do think all BTLers are inherantly evil!?
Is it BTLers that are evil or the concept of BTL?
I openly accept that it is completely possible that large numbers of BTLers are unaware of the harm them do. At the same time there are large numbers who simply do not care.
Either way, the question is are those that have been denied a home by BTLers ethically obliged to continue to provide BTLers with essential services, and if so, why?Bankruptcy isn't the worst that can happen to you. The worst that can happen is your forced to live the rest of your life in abject poverty trying to repay the debts.0 -
Getting rather tired of narrow minded bigots blaming all the world evils on btl landlords. Try understanding the basics of the property rental market before commenting. BTL makes up a really small proportion of the UK housing stock and provides many people with affordable, high standard accommodation."I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." — Confucius0
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Getting rather tired of narrow minded bigots blaming all the world evils on btl landlords. Try understanding the basics of the property rental market before commenting. BTL makes up a really small proportion of the UK housing stock and provides many people with affordable, high standard accommodation.
With 1m BTL loans last year alone, I'm afraid you're talking crap!
On the back of an envelope:
Assuming there were enough houses in the UK to have 1 each, in 2007 BTL loans bought roughly 2% of the properties in the UK.
In reality were living 2-3 people per property, so last year there were enough BTL loans to have bought 5% of UKs housing stock.
And the nature of BTL means if the bottom-end FTB homes that are taken up, not the top end properties.Bankruptcy isn't the worst that can happen to you. The worst that can happen is your forced to live the rest of your life in abject poverty trying to repay the debts.0 -
i think we clearly both fail to understand the precise difference between a 'professional landlord' and someone with a BLT mortgage that SN seems to have. it's something i haven't managed to get SN to define but he seems to not understand that for many people, me included, renting isn't something i'm forced into doing, it's something i have chosen to do at this stage in my life.Getting rather tired of narrow minded bigots blaming all the world evils on btl landlords. Try understanding the basics of the property rental market before commenting. BTL makes up a really small proportion of the UK housing stock and provides many people with affordable, high standard accommodation.:happyhear0 -
Many people "choose" to rent for a period until they settle down.
We now have a society where when people choose to settle down and buy a home, it is now impossible.
Anyway, the question is simple: Is the nurse ethically required to treat someone who forced her to pay him in order that she not freeze to death in the street.Bankruptcy isn't the worst that can happen to you. The worst that can happen is your forced to live the rest of your life in abject poverty trying to repay the debts.0 -
With 1m BTL loans last year alone, I'm afraid you're talking crap!
On the back of an envelope:
Assuming there were enough houses in the UK to have 1 each, in 2007 BTL loans bought roughly 2% of the properties in the UK.
In reality were living 2-3 people per property, so last year there were enough BTL loans to have bought 5% of UKs housing stock.
And the nature of BTL means if the bottom-end FTB homes that are taken up, not the top end properties.
Actually it is you who have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest you re-read the article and note the circa 190,000 increase in BTL loans over the year NOT 1M. Quite simple English if you check it out."I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." — Confucius0 -
This question again? :rolleyes:
Is the nurse ethically required to treat someone who forced her to pay him in order that she not freeze to death in the street.
I ask the question again because no-one would give a proper answer the first time, they just became defensive and insulted me over and over again until the thread was so long the point was lost, and it got moved to somewhere no-one would find it.
I think the question in itself is perfectly valid.Bankruptcy isn't the worst that can happen to you. The worst that can happen is your forced to live the rest of your life in abject poverty trying to repay the debts.0 -
I don't get it ?? You may as well ask if the fireman is ethically required to save someone from a burning building if they support a different football team to him.0
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