0870 Numbers make Millions for Govt Agencies.

IvanOpinion

I think that part of the problem is the changes that society is going through. It used to be that people were happy to post a letter and then a few days later they get the response and then they may send another letter (I even know of one person who used to play chess this way - with their pen pal in Spain.

Nowadays we seem to be getting more and more impatient ... nobody wants to wait a couple of days for information.. and many people seem to think that they are more impotant than they actually are (and demand immediate answers). People demand to have someone on the end of a phone to talk to or a department of people answering emails with a turn around of a few minutes. The growth in call centres is an obvious tribute to this. The problem that a call centre has is to ensure that there are adequate people in during peak periods and not be paying too many people during slack periods. However all of this costs money .. large amounts of it. Somebody has to pay for it ... surely the fairest system is for people using a service to pay for that service?

The obvious solution seems to be that all 0870 numbers spend your first 8p telling you the charging rate. However they probably can not tell you how long you will be in a queue for - since this can be hard to determine - those in front may be 2 minute answers or 15 minute answers.

Out of interest, how much did phone calls cost in the UK before privatisation ... was it comparable to the cost of an 0870 today?

Ivan

bunking_off

IvanOpinion wrote:

Out of interest, how much did phone calls cost in the UK before privatisation ... was it comparable to the cost of an 0870 today?

Ivan

More. Considerably more. 0870 calls reflect the prices of national calls circa 1990 I think, ie a point in time when call prices had already started falling.

bbb_uk

Ivan,

This then brings us back to the same question: What happened before 0870 became so popular a year or two years ago? People are acting like 0870 are saviours and without it the telephone system would fall apart. It's getting used too much now because over the last year or so the revenue that can be claimed as increased. Let's take CPW as an example:-

They've never been in financial trouble and have always had huge profits. They operate a freephone number for general telephone/online sales and their stores (surprisingly) now operate 0870. In fact all CPW numbers are 0870 except this one sales number. Now if you ring your local store on their 0870 (which I was once told by them was local rate!?!) then after a few rings and there is no answer gets diverted to their general sales number. I believe that is a con because I could have just as easily rung their sales line on a 0800 number. CPW profits must have surely increased since the use of these numbers.

If OfCOM (like I've said in other posts) re-classified it as a low (or mini) premium rate and therefore when ringing we wouldn't get charged until such time as they answer. That would be fair enough as we would only pay whilst talking to them which in most cases wouldn't be that long. What happens now is that we get charged from the beginning no matter how long we are in a queue.

Now if OfCOM decided (it wont though) that you had to mention that calls to 0870 are charged at upto 8ppm from a BT landline and could be even higher from a mobile and that x ppm amount (round 4ppm from some providers) is earned from per minute.

This effectively would mean that each company would have to say that it is earning revenue from the call. This would tell everyone that it is in fact a premium rate number as everyone knows premium rate numbers earn the company so much ppm as well except that it wont be under the same constraints as premium rate numbers.

I do believe that a lot of companies faced with telling the truth would go back to geographicals or other lower cost numbers. An example of this that a company called Langley Minature Models* advertised an 0870 number as 'national' rate and the ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) got a complaint and upheld this complaint because it was misleading and told them they would have to advertise the true cost of the call. Funny enough after the complaint was upheld, Langley Minature Models went back to advertising a geographical number.

* courtesy of pricefighter in this post. Unfortunately ASA have changed a lot of things on their website now and the link doesn't work.

UPDATE: Just realised that when I put "* courtesy of pricefighter..." it reads as though he has copyright on it or something and I'm acknowledging it. lol :rotfl:

IvanOpinion

bbb_uk, I haven'y quoted you for fear of copyright breach

I suppose it all comes down to the whether or not you REALLY had to make the call. In answer to your first query 'What happened before?' maybe it was a choice of charging those people who use the service versus a general price rise ?

If I am understanding you correctly then your main issue is NOT the existence of 0870 numbers but the two main issues
1. we are not informed in a timely manner of their cost (or likely cost)
2. being charged while on hold
If so, I would agree whole heartedly with you that these must be addressed.

However if it is a choice of basic product prices being low but being charged for support if you use it or the basic product price being higher with a freephone (or standard) support line then I would vote for the former. If it means I have to pay more tax for services I do not use, or my mothers pension is lower to cover the cost of services she does not use then sorry but I am against that as well. If you use it then you have to expect to pay for it.

Ivan

bbb_uk

Ivan,

You are correct. My main concern is that they are not advertising the true cost of the call and being charged even if you are in a queue. An unfortunate example would be those ringing the london bombing helpline from a mobile at 30/40ppm and being held in a queue for over 30mins (from what I read). I understand that a queue was inevitable and the government are not to blame for that but had there been regulation in place prohibiting being charged for being held in a queue (like for 09 premium rate numbers) then the cost of that call would have been significantly lower. As it turns out though all of the networks (except Voda as far as I'm aware) have agreed to donate their profits from this and it appears that o2 went above and beyond what I would have expected (in my opinion anyhow).

I believe that the government learned a lesson by their increasing use of 0870 numbers especially as contact number for such a tragic event when other lower cost options were available and for which wouldn't have cost the government anymore money (except a 0800 number would have cost them a fortune). I suspect they will now issue a geographical in (god help us) any other tragic events as well as a NGN number. The geographical could then be used for those that are abroad and for those ringing from a mobile so they don't get charged the 30/40ppm.

dchurch24

The govt. stepped over the line with 0870 number for the helpline, and thankfully, this has backfired by way of alerting people to the fact that 0870 numbers are premium numbers.
I recently had to phone the DVLA (to chase my vehicle documents), and the number was an 09xx number!!! As if 0870/1 numbers were not bad enough.
Test fees are not the only revenue stream the DVLA have; they charge for driving licences and replacement documents to name but a few.
I believe that these numbers have contributed to the appauling state of customer service these days.

e.g. Why call a customer back when you say you will, when ultimately they will call back to complain and pay upwards of 15p per minute, and wait in a queue for about 10 of those minutes)

I have an 0871 number that directs to my home number, however, I only give it to firms that use an 0870/1 number themselves. If the number I am given is a geographical number, then that firm gets MY geographical number.

Do unto others as you would have done to yourself. If we all did this, it wouldn't be long before the firms that give these numbers out had their profits cancelled out by having to phone these numbers themselves.

I make very little money from this line, but that is not really the point. The point is that firms have to make phone calls. If the majority of those phone calls is to 0870/1 numbers as it is for consumers, then they may think twice before taking these numbers on.

Just my 2 pence.