Help needed regarding churchill insurance + car damage

Spikecast

Hello all, looking for some advice with an accident involving my R Reg Clio. I came home on October 27th 2007 on my lunch break and parked my car on the end of my drive (which is private) then went into the house for my lunch. (I must stress that the car was NOT damaged prior to me entering the house). Anyway, we have had a decorator (if you can call him that!) round who had a big van on our drive. Whilst I was having my lunch (I was only on a 15 min break) he had moved his van (reversed it off drive) down the drive and then reversed it back up for no apparent reason (basically he did a crap job with some paintwork so we had him back and he was adamant he was going to wait in his van on the drive until my mum returned with his money). So I come out and see a huge dent + scratches down the side panel where the petrol tank is on the driver’s side! I couldn't believe what I was seeing; it had his paint all over the car and some from his van's bumper as well.

I confronted the guy and he denied hitting the car, I asked him if he had bashed my car and he said "I don't know" but then a minute later he was saying "If I had hit your car I would tell you"..hmm like hell you would mate! Anyway, my step father witnessed him moving the van but didn't actually see him hit the car as the van was huge and he couldn't physically see over the other side of the van as it was pretty big and at the time he just assumed he was moving his van as many people do when they are about to leave the house.

Anyway, it’s now February and I’m getting really tired and fed up with Chruchill insurance. It’s now been over 3 months and all I keep getting from them is that they “can’t contact his insurer it’s always engaged and they are ignoring our letters and there is nothing more we can do”. They then continue to say that they can’t do anymore than that UNLESS I pay them the £500 to pay for the cost and lose my hard earned 2 years NCB (first off I haven’t got £500! And second why should I lose my 2 years NCB?) then they will fix my car and “try to recover the costs from his insurer”. So what the want is to take my original fee I pay them for my insurance then pay them a further £500 in excess and I can almost guarantee from how incompetent they have been so far they won’t even take it up with his insurer if I was to pay the excess amount. They have only ever sent me 2 letters in the 3 month period and I have been advised to get the ombudsman involved. Is this the right route to take now? Has anyone had similar issues with Churchill? I certainly don’t plan to renew my insurance with them next month so I will insure elsewhere so where does this leave me with this claim in a months time? I must also stress that because of the damage to the panel which has bent some of the wheel arch out, the panel has now rusted severely and I've had a quote to fix the damage myself but have been told the panel is ruined and would cost more than the car is worth (£1200 roughly).

Has anyone got any advice? My excess is £500 and I don't fancy losing my no claims bonus (2 years as I'm only 22!) I have the guys name and registration but I feel he shouldn't be allowed to get away with this but I sense that if he denies it, it's his word against mine? I also contacted the police at the time and they weren’t interested due to it being on private property. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Nick.

Quentin

You can't prove who did the damage.

So your insurers are right - either make a claim on your insurance (and lose your ncb etc), or repair it at your own cost and thereby save your ncb.

Steve1981

the only options you have are to either pay your excess it may be £500 but when you took the policy you agreed that as the figure you would pay if you made a claim. OR sort out the repairs yourself, that way you wont lose your NCD.

Its not fair but unfortunatly if you cant prove who hit your car, then whilst your insurers will pay out then it means it effects your policy (if it costs them money it costs you money)

it might be worth bearing in mind that whilst you will have to pay the £500 xs, as you said you will also lose your NCD and the claim will have a loading on your policy for the next 3 years.

Spikecast

Thanks I guessed as much. I contacted Churchill on friday who have asked me to forward them some photo's with his paint on them and of the overall damage which I am posting out to them on monday via recorded delivery. Also now they are sending someone from Churchill to give me a price on the damage which they should have offered me months ago even by their own admission. All I got was "I'm sorry sir, you should have been offered this from the start) so obviously I wasn't happy.

I also have a query regarding my renewal. I got my renewal yesutrday for £700 from Churchill. I only paid £350 last year, however when looking they had taken off my NCB even though I haven't actually filed a claim I've only reported the incident! When I phoned up to ask them why they said because I have an open case they remove my NCB until my dispute is resolved. Can they do this? As far as I'm concerned I don't see how they can take my no claims bonus of 3 years off me when I haven't even made a claim? Also this now makes it very difficult for me to resolve my case within a month as my renewal is up on the 6th of march. They did tell me on the phone if I drop my case they will give me my 3 year NCB and my policy will then go down to £317 however I have found this cheaper elsewhere (£266) and due to the hassle want to move insurers anyway.

Any advice would be great, thanks!

V_tricky

Spikecast wrote: »

SNIP
It’s now been over 3 months and all I keep getting from them is that they “can’t contact his insurer it’s always engaged and they are ignoring our letters and there is nothing more we can do”. They then continue to say that they can’t do anymore than that UNLESS I pay them the £500 to pay for the cost and lose my hard earned 2 years NCB (first off I haven’t got £500! And second why should I lose my 2 years NCB?) then they will fix my car and “try to recover the costs from his insurer”. So what the want is to take my original fee I pay them for my insurance then pay them a further £500 in excess and I can almost guarantee from how incompetent they have been so far they won’t even take it up with his insurer if I was to pay the excess amount. They have only ever sent me 2 letters in the 3 month period and I have been advised to get the ombudsman involved. Is this the right route to take now? Has anyone had similar issues with Churchill? I certainly don’t plan to renew my insurance with them next month so I will insure elsewhere so where does this leave me with this claim in a months time? I must also stress that because of the damage to the panel which has bent some of the wheel arch out, the panel has now rusted severely and I've had a quote to fix the damage myself but have been told the panel is ruined and would cost more than the car is worth (£1200 roughly).

Has anyone got any advice? My excess is £500 and I don't fancy losing my no claims bonus (2 years as I'm only 22!) I have the guys name and registration but I feel he shouldn't be allowed to get away with this but I sense that if he denies it, it's his word against mine? I also contacted the police at the time and they weren’t interested due to it being on private property. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Nick.

Right....

1) Your insurer can't claim back a loss that's not been incurred. If you had them pay for the damage, then in theory they could issue County Court proceedings on the driver of the van. If they have no loss to claim, then their hands are tied

2) If all insurers wrote to their customers monthly with a claims update, the costs of someone writing and producing those letters would be enormous. Also, would a letter saying that they'd called/written the third party insurer, but had received no response so have called/written again be worthwhile? What else can they do? They can't pursue this through the Courts after all

3) The Ombudsman wont deal with any complaint unless you have been through the insurance company's own complaints procedure and have received a Final Decision Letter. Although really, what more can they [the insurer] do as you're in claim limbo? You're expecting to use their claims staff, paper, computers, telephone bill etc, without making a claim.

4) Will it leave you with a claim in a months time? It will, unless you tell them you're not claiming!

5) Regarding the rust on the panel. Even if you are successful in claiming off the van (and see below on my opinion of your chances of recovery in these circumstances) you are only entitled to the cost of the damage at the time of the accident. If your lack of action has now led to the damage being worse/more expensive, the van drivers insurance is not responsible for this.

As for your chances of making a successful recovery - IMHO slim to none.

You (and your insurers) have to PROVE with EVIDENCE that, on the balance of probability this damage was done by that driver. He doesn't have to prove that he's not done it, you have to prove that he has. Would an impartial person (ie a judge) be able to make a ruling in your favour with no evidence other than you went into your house and when you came back the damage was done

Sorry I can't be more positive!

jonesMUFCforever

A claim is a claim - whether it is your fault or not so Churchhill were right to take the NCD off your renewal.

No claims means no claims not no blame.

Spikecast

But as I've said I've not actually claimed anything off them. I've just informed them of the incident in the hope the other party will accept liability. I haven't made an actual claim and don't plan to! If they don't admit liability then I will be paying for it myself.

Spikecast

V_tricky wrote: »

Right....

1) Your insurer can't claim back a loss that's not been incurred. If you had them pay for the damage, then in theory they could issue County Court proceedings on the driver of the van. If they have no loss to claim, then their hands are tied

2) If all insurers wrote to their customers monthly with a claims update, the costs of someone writing and producing those letters would be enormous. Also, would a letter saying that they'd called/written the third party insurer, but had received no response so have called/written again be worthwhile? What else can they do? They can't pursue this through the Courts after all

3) The Ombudsman wont deal with any complaint unless you have been through the insurance company's own complaints procedure and have received a Final Decision Letter. Although really, what more can they [the insurer] do as you're in claim limbo? You're expecting to use their claims staff, paper, computers, telephone bill etc, without making a claim.

4) Will it leave you with a claim in a months time? It will, unless you tell them you're not claiming!

5) Regarding the rust on the panel. Even if you are successful in claiming off the van (and see below on my opinion of your chances of recovery in these circumstances) you are only entitled to the cost of the damage at the time of the accident. If your lack of action has now led to the damage being worse/more expensive, the van drivers insurance is not responsible for this.

As for your chances of making a successful recovery - IMHO slim to none.

You (and your insurers) have to PROVE with EVIDENCE that, on the balance of probability this damage was done by that driver. He doesn't have to prove that he's not done it, you have to prove that he has. Would an impartial person (ie a judge) be able to make a ruling in your favour with no evidence other than you went into your house and when you came back the damage was done

Sorry I can't be more positive!

Thanks, it looks like I may as well just let this drop. In reference to point 5. It's not my lack of action it's Churchill. They've not offered to look at my car from the start which would have been a big help. What more can I do other than give them the details and call them every week? We both know insurers don't exactly rush with their decisions! Unfortunately everything is against me when it was that idiot that's caused the damage. It's very frustrating.

Quentin

Did you ever actually make a claim on your own insurance?

It appears not from what you say.

So why would your insurers want to go to the trouble and expense of sending someone to look at your car?

Spikecast

Nope not actually made a claim. I'm a bit unsure really as to why they are sending someone, all I did say was I would like to know if the damage is more than my cars value but was originally told that they wouldn't unless I went ahead with a claim. To be honest I'm tempted to forget the whole thing and just admit defeat.

V_tricky

They may be sending an engineer to examine your car and do a 'Pro-Forma Invoice' which basically confirms exactly how much damage has been caused - a way of proving that there has been a loss, even though there is no actual paid and receipted invoice to show it.

They wouldn't have done this from the get go as of course, sending out an engineer costs money (something in the region of £58.75), so on top of their own admin costs for writing/receiving letters and making and receiving calls, this non-claim is actually costing them after all.

The only way you can stop them from disallowing your NCD either temporarily (if you are successful against the other person the NCD would be reinstated) or permanently (if you weren't) is to confirm to them that you don't wish to claim and that you agree to bear all losses yourself.

They wouldn't seek to recoup the costs they've already incurred back from you, and you would get your NCD back. You can always issue County Court proceedings against this guy yourself for a nominal issue fee at your local court.

Once you get to Court it is basically your word against his, and it could go either way, or you could be partially successful and get perhaps 50% of the cost of the repair back.



PS - What I meant earlier about the rust is that although this chap might be responsible for the damage caused, he's not responsible for any additional costs incurred because for whatever reason the damage wasn't fixed