Work or be homeless!

lotto-dreamer

SquatNow wrote: »

The government defends the rights of land owners over all other, as if they don't then they lose all power... the government become meaningless. If no-one was defending land rights people could just go and setup a tent in a field and grow their own food and pay no taxes. If people were self sufficient they wouldn't have to take any notice of the government.

Essentially:
Government = Defense of Land Rights.

Every 18 years house prices peak, the economy collapses and house prices crash. At the bottom of the crash, very rich land speculators buy up tens of thousands of houses, many at auction, for a pittence. This 18 year cycle is created deliberately for this exact reason... it makes some rich people even richer.

None of this is in any way a secret! There are plenty of books on it.

Which books? Intriguing theory.

ALIBOBSY

Read most but not all of this thread. Think I have got the general trend.
Having previously worked processing Jobseekers allowance I have seen the range of people signing on.
There are alot of genuine claimants. There are those who are in work then made redundant, and sign on for a short period till they find another job or in some cases retire. We also see a number of people who are desperate to work and struggle to find a job. The push now is to get people into any work even for a short period to stop people sitting on benefits for years. Alot of those wanting to work end up working for agencies perhaps 2 wks in work 2 wks out. There are a number of incentives to help long term unemployed whilst starting work including a housing benefit run on where it is still paid for the initial period whilst you are working and we all know the low paid can claim tax credits, council tax benefit etc so to say you are better off on benefits these days is a bit of a fallicy any monetary difference will be small, it is just a case of if you can be bothered to work or not.
Which bring me to the final group of claimants, these are those who don't want to work and those who to be honest noone would employ anyway. The jobcentres have to keep pushing them into jobs and doing work courses, which they have to do or their benefit is sanctioned (ie disallowed). We saw loads of claims where they couldn't be bothered turning up for a job course or work based training and they get disallowed (as they should). Unfortunately the government are obliged not to leave them with no benefit, and the can apply for a special reduced rate benefit. But the fact is this is a very low level and they have to go through the hoops of applying for it. These disallowances can be up to 6 months and we saw loads of these. So I do think there are some encouragements to get into work and discouragements to get off benefits. Having seen the comments and writing on many claim forms I can safely say there are a minortiy of claimants who are almost unemployable. In response to our question what have you lived off during the last year whilst off benefits and not working a customer replied "off the profits from my ill gotton gans" (his spelling not mine!). These are the people the job centre get into a job only to get sacked after a day. Personelly I would spend less time and money worrying if they have council housing or not and more time and money getting these people into work. One thing I and many of my colleagues have talked about is some kind of community work. So if you don't find work say within 6 months you start having to work for the community in order to get your benefit.
I find it difficult to live with throwing people no matter how chavish or undeserving on the street.
At least with the housing crash those working might stand a better chance of getting on the property ladder or will be helped by the fact that lower property prices surely has to push rental prices down.
ali x

clutton_2

""you are better off on benefits these days is a bit of a fallicy any monetary difference will be small""

i have just lost one of my best tenants - single parent mum - who has now gone back to live with her mum. She managed fine on benefits, and was planning to go to college - but was persuaded to get a part time job - which she thought was great - but - her income plummetted - and she is now in debt and being threatened with CCJs by all and sundry. i really felt sorry for her. She's a real "tryer" - but her spirit is broken temporarily

Spark

Nightwatchman said :
Are you aware that in Greece and Spain the unemployment benefit is automatically stopped after about six, months?
Also in Greece if you are unemployed for longer than one year you loose your free health care as well.

In Italy, there was a system like that, where you only get unemployment benefit for six months, and you had to pay part of their NHS like system. (some exams and blood tests, things like that).
I remember one case, about a young unemployed couple with a chronically ill child(I think it was leukemia or something like that). They had passed the 6 months doll money and didn't have any money for the treatment for their kid. So they robbed a bank. The police found them in their flat with the money intact. They have been arrested, of course, but they said they did that for their kid, they never intended to spend he money, it was to attract attention to them in the hope that someone would help their child getting the treatment needed.. They were charged for the crime, but someone in the public decided to pay for the treatment.
That's all they wanted.

Beware of only seing one side of the coin. You never see the misery behind closed doors.

Generali

SquatNow wrote: »

Every 18 years house prices peak, the economy collapses and house prices crash.

No they don't, that's rubbish.



Peaks are in late 1974 (not on the graph) 1979, 1990 (and 2008? perhaps). So that's gaps of 5 years, 11 and now 18 and counting. There is no cycle, people just like to try to see order where there is none.

nightwatchman

QUOTE by Dithering Dad vbmenu_register("postmenu_8526541", true);
I get tired of the people knocking our country. If the chap above likes Spain (which used to be a fascist country during Franco's military junta) and Greece (which also had a period of facism during George Papadopoulos' military junta) so much then perhaps he should move there. Though I'm sure he'd come running back with his tail between his legs as soon as he got too ill to work and/or needed medical treatment that he couldn't afford to pay privately for...

I have a house there and I am intending to retire there.

Quote by Spark vbmenu_register("postmenu_8529773", true);
In Italy, there was a system like that, where you only get unemployment benefit for six months, and you had to pay part of their NHS like system. (some exams and blood tests, things like that).
I remember one case, about a young unemployed couple with a chronically ill child(I think it was leukemia or something like that). They had passed the 6 months doll money and didn't have any money for the treatment for their kid. So they robbed a bank. The police found them in their flat with the money intact. They have been arrested, of course, but they said they did that for their kid, they never intended to spend he money, it was to attract attention to them in the hope that someone would help their child getting the treatment needed.. They were charged for the crime, but someone in the public decided to pay for the treatment.
That's all they wanted.

Beware of only seing one side of the coin. You never see the misery behind closed doors.

You have a good point there Spark.
However during my time there I visit the A&E because I manage to fall in a swimming pool. It passed less than 5’min from my entry in the hospital to the time they had me Xrayed (although I have to admit the hospital was not looking to be in very good condition).
Here also we have some controversy going, regarding postcode lottery in our free healthcare. Some health trusts will prescribe life saving medicines to cancer patients and some others will not.

Hmm… I think that I would not have changed our HNS in favour to the Italia or Greek.
The rest of my arguments however I believe that they still stand.

Broken_hearted

Why would anyone able to work not want to?. Moreover why should those who do pay for them to have a nice house, while those of us with mortgages stress about rate increases.

mishmash

churchrat wrote: »

hi mishmash
please ignore them. they don't really care what you think and just want to argue. I had to ask what !!!!!! stood for just now because I hadn't come across it on any of the other boards, but I can really see why it is needed on this one.
have an enjoyable weekend--up to anything good?

Thanks Hon
Having a fab weekend actually:D Out with the girls last night, been in the country park with the kids in the sunshine today. Out for a family meal tonight and watching my lad play football tomorow before going to my Mums for Sunday lunch and I am not working on Monday a perfect weekend.

I am not upset by the comments I know there are people who hold narrow minded views. It just does upset me a little that a site I have loved for some time is turning into a home for such people.

I dont need or want their pity . I have a very good life. I have a new partner, I got a degree and am now one of those people who seem to pay more in tax than I get in my wage. I don't begrudge it a bit. With all it's faults I would far rather live in a system where a few can abuse it than the kind of one that is being proposed in this thread. I know they just want a way to express their twisted views and argue, and maybe I should not fuel them by giving them a response. But I was raised to stand up and be counted.

Thanks for your support, think I will go and look at some nicer threads now and remind myself that there are still some normal nice mse people.

Hope you have a great weekend too x
Ps what does FSS stand for then?

tom558

There are some nasty right wing views in this forum,I wonder if you would consider me to be a scrounger.
I have lived in my council house for well over thirty years, and I am fifty nine years old..
I have worked, full time, for the best part of forty years.
I had to take redundany,due to ill health,two years ago,although I am ok again now.
I have lived off my savings, and a small company pension since then, no state help.
I have two grown up kids, they were never in any trouble, and they both went to university.
Later this year, when I turn sixty I intend to apply for pension credit, this way I will not have to pay rent or council tax, I consider that after 33years I have paid my fair share.
The other reason I am going to claim pension credit, is that council house rents increase by, more than, twice the rate of inflation each and every year, I wonder how many of you realise that.
You may wonder why I did not buy my house, well I consider myself financially responsible, or put it another way, did not want to bite off more than I could chew, unlike many people today.
So there you are, am I a scrounger, after all I am a council tenant, and I do not intend to even try to find work, after I reach 60 years old.

Generali

tom558 wrote: »

There are some nasty right wing views in this forum,I wonder if you would consider me to be a scrounger.
I have lived in my council house for well over thirty years, and I am fifty nine years old..
I have worked, full time, for the best part of forty years.
I had to take redundany,due to ill health,two years ago,although I am ok again now.
I have lived off my savings, and a small company pension since then, no state help.
I have two grown up kids, they were never in any trouble, and they both went to university.
Later this year, when I turn sixty I intend to apply for pension credit, this way I will not have to pay rent or council tax, I consider that after 33years I have paid my fair share.
The other reason I am going to claim pension credit, is that council house rents increase by, more than, twice the rate of inflation each and every year, I wonder how many of you realise that.
You may wonder why I did not buy my house, well I consider myself finanially responsible, or put it another way, did not want to bite off more than I could chew, unlike many people today.
So there you are, am I a scrounger, after all I am a council tenant, and I do not intend to even try to find work, after I reach 60 years old.

I don't blame anyone for taking what's offered. What seems crazy to me is that the govt pays a load of people to take tax from you and another load to give it back to you as benefits.