LloydsTSB Fixed rate Isa 6.5%

sloughflint

Judwin wrote: »

To start with I think they were. But, now I've had a chance to re-read the T&C of the FRISA, Section 5.2, the last sentance reads "Part transfers are not permitted".

Tricky one.
I was not happy that the T&Cs weren't available online prior to the branch meeting.
Even less happy that the person told me that the T&C would be available only at the end of the application process ( the printed out form etc)
Then we are expected to read them and accept them before signing. It's hard to spot all these ridiculous inconsistencies/gaps on first read.
However you have proof that £20 k was printed on the form so hopefully shows that the person accepted that partial transfers IN were allowed at the time.

Good luck

( Also, are they really allowed to make their own rules up and say partial transfers IN not allowed from now on? Definitely one for FOS to look into .

derrick

Judwin wrote: »

To start with I think they were. But, now I've had a chance to re-read the T&C of the FRISA, Section 5.2, the last sentance reads "Part transfers are not permitted".

That is for transfers out of the FRISA,Heading is; - "EMERGENCY WITHDRAWALS AND TRANSFERS"

And I think that's why they're digging their heels in now. A bank error (part Abbey, part LTSB giving mis-information and ignoring my instructions) has caused too much to pe paid in, and they are using the T&C's to stop it being transferred out again.

However, when the fixed rate expires (probably next Feb for me), the account reverts to a standard variable rate isa, and the T&C for that do not appear to prohibit partial transfers. Section 4.2 of the T&C for that don't include the same sentance.

So, unless I can get LTSB to accept that this was a bank error, it appears I'm trapped in an ISA paying 6.5% till next Feb. :mad:

Depends when the account actually opens! as there is a 14 day window if you are not happy to cancel the FRISA Section A. 1. ACCOUNT OPENING 6.

madonss

derrick wrote: »

Depends when the account actually opens! as there is a 14 day window if you are not happy to cancel the FRISA Section A. 1. ACCOUNT OPENING 6.

Whilst driving my coach and horses through the gaps in the T&Cs :rolleyes: I thought you might be able to exploit the fact that the 14 days starts when you receive your "welcome pack". Since they are not actually sending out welcome packs the 14 days will never actually start and you can (technically at least!) transfer out at any time without penalty.:rotfl:

sloughflint

Judwin,
A5.1 In an emergency you may make a withdrawal or transfer from your FRISA during the 12 months Fixed rate period.Your transfer request may be made at any branch....If you make any transfer of funds out of the fixed rate period, you will lose the last 90 days interest on the account. We will carry out your request for a transfer out of the account within the time you stipulate as long as we have a reasonable period to implement your request.
So how can they argue with that? I assume the request was made quite a while ago?
3rd March seems quite reasonable to me!!!
Just a case of LTSB and Abbey arguing with who should compensate you for the loss of interest, surely?

edit:
Nope, 5.1 refers transfer of funds ( eg to ordinary account) rather than ISA transfer, I think.

Sorry, I tried.
But:

They (the LTSB ISA centre) say that PARTIAL transfers into or out of LTSB ISA accounts are no longer permitted.They say this is a new restriction imposed this year.

But that is key for you. At the time you were able to partially transfer INTO ( again nothing whatsoever in the T&Cs) and the form you signed stated £20k so their mistake to sort out for you.The fact that you can't transfer INTO now is completely irrelevant.

redcar_2

Judwin wrote: »

To start with I think they were. But, now I've had a chance to re-read the T&C of the FRISA, Section 5.2, the last sentance reads "Part transfers are not permitted".

And I think that's why they're digging their heels in now. A bank error (part Abbey, part LTSB giving mis-information and ignoring my instructions) has caused too much to pe paid in, and they are using the T&C's to stop it being transferred out again.

However, when the fixed rate expires (probably next Feb for me), the account reverts to a standard variable rate isa, and the T&C for that do not appear to prohibit partial transfers. Section 4.2 of the T&C for that don't include the same sentance.

So, unless I can get LTSB to accept that this was a bank error, it appears I'm trapped in an ISA paying 6.5% till next Feb. :mad:

I would assume it can only be seen as a bank error as either Abbey or Lloyds have ignored your request for £20k transfer and Lloyds also made an error in accepting the application based on the partial transfer according to their interpretation of their regs.

I tried to open a FRISA last tax year funded by a partial transfer and was told you couldn't do a partial transfer to fund it. The problem being that I wasn't (at that point) transferring the current years (2007-8) ISA in. They in fact opened and within the day closed the account for me with a 'nice' lady phoning me back to apologise that they had made an error.

I was told to wait until this tax year and then there would be no problem funding with a partial transfer, so could you ask them since they made the mistake to count the account as opening on 6/4/8 and then you should be OK.

I'm assuming you'll be OK as they have since accepted my application funded by a partial transfer - that being said my old provider hasn't been contacted yet and the cheque I gave them for this years contributions has not yet been cashed (2 weeks after appt) so I'm getting twitchy again! I am assuming that the cheque amount will be earning interest at 6.5% from the date I gave it to them as that is what I was told and as some others have obviously been told. Had I not been told this I wouldn't have given them that cheque and just waited for the transfer to go over.

What it does underline is that people are making financial decisions based on the message they get from Lloyds staff and some people will at least initially be losing out because of this one way or the other unless Lloyds honour its staff assurances as we can't all be right.

dkmax_2

sloughflint wrote: »

Everyone should be happy?
I am indulging in silly thought processes now but....
I wonder how HMRC would see this if as boobbby says pigs fly?

There is a maximum allowable subscription per tax year.

Gaining interest twice could show up as equivalent to having more than the allowable subscriptions per tax year.... rather like people trying to pay £3600 in two places and HMRC picking up on it and closing one of the accounts.
I don't have a clue how HMRC are involved but surely for that overlapping period of time it would look like two subscriptions.
.

I don't see interest being paid twice in that scenario - the banks aren't going to do that. If such a scenario existed we'd be transferring ISAs on a daily basis (although given the pain and stress of this, perhaps that's unlikely!). If interest is backdated it will only be because the original ISA will have had its interest payments frozen from the date of transfer - then a transfer would indeed be like a cheque in all regards.

I'm still waiting for my transfers to happen - haven't heard a peep out of anyone yet. I do have this year's contribution sitting there earning a less than ideal 5%. If the backdating to account opening applies (which I doubt) does that mean I've actually been earning 6.5% on this thus far? Oh no, another point to debate!

redcar_2

dkmax wrote: »

I'm still waiting for my transfers to happen - haven't heard a peep out of anyone yet. I do have this year's contribution sitting there earning a less than ideal 5%. If the backdating to account opening applies (which I doubt) does that mean I've actually been earning 6.5% on this thus far? Oh no, another point to debate!

I think you should be getting 6.5% on that money.

Just phoned Lloyds and they have no record of my application. Asked me if I would like to start again although obviously not opening the 6.5% as that offer has been withdrawn. :eek:

I expressed *a little dismay at this* along with *concern* that my cheque appears to have been lost too so they are going to look into it and get back to me...

sloughflint

How much do you want this account redcar? You could get your old provider to stop the cheque and rebuild the account to take into consideation lost interest and find another deal.
Trouble is, I don't know if current deals elsewhere are close.

dkmax wrote:

I don't see interest being paid twice in that scenario

I don't think any of us do,dkmax.
I don't think interest will be paid from the date MONEYPENNY's LTSB employee says either regardless of what his letter will say.
But good ammunition for next year.

Judwin

As far as I can tell from re-reading the T&C's there is no restriction on partial transfers into the FRISA . At least not in the 6.5% version that was available till a week or so ago.

Section 5 of the T&C's refers to EMERGENCY WITHDRAWLS and TRANSFERS, so I think the following applies to transfers OUT only, not deposits/subscriptions or transfers in.

Section_5.2 wrote:

You may ask to transfer the whole of your FRISA to another provider or another LTSB ISA product by writing to Lloyds TSB bank plc, BX1 1LT. We will carry out your request within the time you stipulate, so long as we have a reasonable period (no more than 30 days) to implement your request. Part transfers are not permitted.

From April 6th 2008 : If you wish to transfer your ISA to another provider you must submit a transfer application form to that provider instead of writing to us.

I cannot see any such restriction to transfers in in the T&C. It was the branch staff who after talking to the ISA centre told me that neither partial transfers in or out are permitted. But frankly I lost any trust I had in what they tell me many weeks ago so I wouldn't beliebe it till you see it in writing.

As for the 14 day cooling off period - Because ISA transfers typically take 3-4 weeks to complete, you won't be aware of any problems till after the 14 days cooling off period has expired, regardless of when/where you get the T&C's.

It might be possible for me to get Abbey to undo the transfer, but that would effcively mean transferring the money back to them, at a rubbish interest rate (the 1 year bonus has now expired). And if Lloyds close my FRISA in the process, they won't let me re-open it since the offer is now closed.

So the lesser of two evils as I see it is to leave the money where it is (earning 6.5%) and try to persuade LTSB to do what they agreed to in branch. If they won't, then I'm stuck till next Feb, when all my money will be leaving them (£30K+ in the FRISA, £7K+ (by then) in their 2 year 8% regular saver) leaving pennies in my current account.

:mad:

sloughflint

Judwin wrote: »

As far as I can tell from re-reading the T&C's there is no restriction on partial transfers into the FRISA . At least not in the 6.5% version that was available till a week or so ago.

Section 5 of the T&C's refers to EMERGENCY WITHDRAWLS and TRANSFERS, so I think the following applies to transfers OUT only, not deposits/subscriptions or transfers in.



I cannot see any such restriction to transfers in in the T&C. It was the branch staff who after talking to the ISA centre told me that neither partial transfers in or out are permitted. But frankly I lost any trust I had in what they tell me many weeks ago so I wouldn't beliebe it till you see it in writing.


:mad:

Yes that's what I was trying to say before.
Section 5 is to do with transfers OUT. Another gap in the T&Cs is about transfers in.
The website that I linked to in this post could have been misinterpreted by the person you spoke to of the rules regarding current tax year as opposed to previous tax years.
Especially as we've got people on here who have succesfully transferred IN partially.
This thread is good enough evidence that you can't trust a word of what LTSB staff say.

So it's LTSB's mess to sort out for you to your satisfaction.The fact that they generally won't allow a partial transfer OUT is not your concern.