Northern Rock Shares

sarah1975uk

bristolleedsfan wrote: »

All u can do is to let events run its course, What Mr Darling is effectively doing is saying its better for the Treasury to take the NR assets ( 110 Billion) for free than to have to pay for them, which is the same as a Thief saying im gonna steal a TV set because its cheaper than me having to pay for it.

Railtrack Shareholders did go to court and lose, the above article link was how it finished so dont be suprised if the outcome for NR Share Holdings is similar. albeit could be a while before events reach that final stage.

How much did u pay for your NR Shareholding out of interest.? :think:

It was a few months back, i think i paid about £1.20 a share;)

Sapphire

ad44downey wrote: »

Don't build your hopes up please, the shares are effectively worthless, you'll be lucky to get 20 pence per share from the government and that as far as the taxpayer is concerned is still 20 pence too much.

I can't help agreeing with this – all investment in shares is a form of gambling, and if you are not prepared to take on the risk, you shouldn't gamble. I don't agree with taxpayers' money being used to pay off shareholders. There are far more needy candidates for that money. :cool:

bristolleedsfan

sarah1975uk wrote: »

It was a few months back, i think i paid about £1.20 a share;)

One of the arguments will be that trading should have been suspended when the run on NR occured, rather than five months later.

Whilst Shareholders are aware that Shares can go up and down they have no expectation that a Thief may steal them. :eek:

Fella

Sapphire wrote: »

I can't help agreeing with this – all investment in shares is a form of gambling, and if you are not prepared to take on the risk, you shouldn't gamble. I don't agree with taxpayers' money being used to pay off shareholders. There are far more needy candidates for that money. :cool:

Broadly speaking I agree too. The Govt shouldn't be bailing out private shareholders - we all take our own chances.

NRK is an interesting one though - I for one think the situation is potentially dire & I'm not surprised or dismayed that the Govt stepped in when it did. Panic spreads fast.

Let's not forget though, that G Brown was in charge for the decade that preceded NRK getting into this state. He knew what was going on & at the end of the day he's culpable. (For anyone who disagrees - you think he DIDN'T know what was going on? In that case he's even more culpable....)

NRK is a royal f****p & there is (IMO) no way that it'll end that won't be to the general dissatisfaction of all involved. The bigger picture is still to play out though. And we still don't know what that'll be.

In the meantime, there may be opportunities to invest & this board is as good a place as most, & better than many, to be clued up on those.

sarah1975uk

I think the government knew what they were doing all those months back when this kicked off. I agree they should have suspended shares back then. What they have done has robbed everyone including the humble tax payer to try and minimise their loss at nationalisation. Remind me to vote gordon brown/labour out at the next election

Fella

bristolleedsfan wrote: »

One of the arguments will be that trading should have been suspended when the run on NR occured, rather than five months later.

Whilst Shareholders are aware that Shares can go up and down they have no expectation that a Thief may steal them. :eek:

BLF - I have a helluva lot of respect for what you know.

But that statement is just plain wrong. Shareholders should have every expectation that that may happen. If you don't, then don't invest in shares. Boards frequently lie to shareholders. The upside of shares is that you spread your risk around enough so the x% of the time you win massively outweighs the X% of the time you get screwed over.

IMO anyway.

bristolleedsfan

Fella wrote: »

BLF - I have a helluva lot of respect for what you know.

But that statement is just plain wrong. Shareholders should have every expectation that that may happen. If you don't, then don't invest in shares. Boards frequently lie to shareholders. The upside of shares is that you spread your risk around enough so the x% of the time you win massively outweighs the X% of the time you get screwed over.

IMO anyway.

My references to Stealing and Thief has actually been said in jest ( as i actually believe that unless the Government do what they should be doing and that is selling off the assets, getting the Taxpayers money back and then shutting NR down then Shareholders will actually end up with a similar outcome to which Railtrack Shareholders gained. )

I.E At some point NR shares will get relisted and at that point NR shareholders will be offered a final compensation deal.

I believe that in the coming days and weeks you will see more reference and captions to "thief" and "stealing" and more references to fact nobody should be in a situation where they bought shares in September 2007 which then became delisted in February 2008 with nothing having changed in between.

It should be appreciated that as things are atm NR has assets of 110 billion, 26 Billion ish has been lent to NR and the Government has kicked all the Shareholders out so that it ( The Government) is now the only Shareholder. ( Not a usual Company/Shareholder situation)

meester

bristolleedsfan wrote: »

One of the arguments will be that trading should have been suspended when the run on NR occured, rather than five months later.

Whilst Shareholders are aware that Shares can go up and down they have no expectation that a Thief may steal them. :eek:

Any private buyer could buy Northern Rock.

But none is capable of doing so without government help.

The government is not required to give any help at all.

Given that the takeover is doomed without government help, the shares are worthless. If the government said, as it well could, 'this is private enterprise, the private sector needs to finance it and clean it up itself', then they would have gone bust, nothing for you at all.

So you should be grateful to get anything.

bristolleedsfan

meester wrote: »

Any private buyer could buy Northern Rock.

But none is capable of doing so without government help.

The government is not required to give any help at all.

Given that the takeover is doomed without government help, the shares are worthless. If the government said, as it well could, 'this is private enterprise, the private sector needs to finance it and clean it up itself', then they would have gone bust, nothing for you at all.

So you should be grateful to get anything.

Yes very true except fact that loans to NR have been made on a commercial basis .i.e with interest payable in the same way as the B.O.E and other central banks have subsequently made loans available to other Banks, only difference is that its been done in a more orderly fashion than what occurred with Northern Rocks apparent naming and shaming in September 2007.

E.G The last B.O.E auction of money loans, one financial institution bid well over the top ( interest wise) for a tranch of the loans, its identity has remained a secret. ( had it been named then a run may have occurred on that Bank as well, my guess is that it was A+L who had also been going into Europe to get funds paying over 7% by the time fees were factored in, hence the reason A+L subsequently issued a 7% Fixed Rate account.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7149153.stm

"Someone borrowed money at 6.6% and that definitely suggests that they were desperate to get some funding," he added."

You may say well other Banks havent needed 26 billion of loans, true again comes back to who caused the run on NR deposits which caused NR to lose a significant amount of deposits some of which will have benefitted Bradford And Bingley and A+L.

True no Private Company can buy NR without Government assistance, this is due to the damage having been done in September 2007, so people bought shares in NR on the basis that they did in September 2007, five months later the shares have been delisted with nothing having changed in between.

Fella

bristolleedsfan wrote: »

My references to Stealing and Thief has actually been said in jest ( as i actually believe that unless the Government do what they should be doing and that is selling off the assets, getting the Taxpayers money back and then shutting NR down then Shareholders will actually end up with a similar outcome to which Railtrack Shareholders gained. )

I.E At some point NR shares will get relisted and at that point NR shareholders will be offered a final compensation deal.

I believe that in the coming days and weeks you will see more reference and captions to "thief" and "stealing" and more references to fact nobody should be in a situation where they bought shares in September 2007 which then became delisted in February 2008 with nothing having changed in between.

It should be appreciated that as things are atm NR has assets of 110 billion, 26 Billion ish has been lent to NR and the Government has kicked all the Shareholders out so that it ( The Government) is now the only Shareholder. ( Not a usual Company/Shareholder situation)

That makes more sense.

I have to say though, that anyone who bought shares between Sep 2007 & now & DIDN'T understand that they were taking a 100% punt, just the same as betting on a horse in the Gold Cup** should stop buying shares immediately. NRK has been a pure punt since this all started. It may be a punt that wins, or loses, but it's a punt all the same.

In direct contrast to NRK investment products, which may offer outstanding value. Or not. But are an interesting anomoly since this started, & especially now.


(IMO).





**Denman has looked good to me, but I only MB ***




***Most of the time.