Maintenance Agreements...Are They Enforceable?

trafalgar_2

Kittenlucy
I think the person you were responding to was trying to make the point ........................

why should her/their child have less because the man has decided to shirk his responsibility to their child but has since gone off and had more :-/

Are you saying this is acceptable behaviour ???

nearlyrich

I have some relevant experience here, I know that you can't make someone take responsibility but you can get on with life and make yourself proud of what you can achieve without him.

I have 2 children now 17 & 18 my ex left when they were very young when he decided he didn't like the responsibility of parenthood.

I have a court order which is OK till you try to enforce it and it is more grief than enough.
I had to fight for any money in fact it cost me to go to court on several occaisions.

I decided it was better for my sanity to take the responsibility for them myself and any money he paid treat it as a bonus.

He stopped paying his £100 per month ( Yes for 2 teenagers) when no 2 was 16, both still in FTE and hoping to go to university one this year and one next year.

I have worked since they were young, had great support from my mum, now have a decent job and reasonable lifestyle. Trying not to think of the cost of the next 4 years!!

It hasn't always been easy but my advice to your daughter is take what if anything is on offer but don't waste your life chasing what you can't get.

Plumpud_3

In response to the original query from the person who's ex-son-in-law is going to France. Get your Daughter to go to a GOOD solicitor ASAP.

If he has a property, the Court can place a charge on the property, so that when it is sold, he is not paid all of the proceeds (in exactly the same way that a lender is paid if there is a mortgage on the property).

As a previous reply said, if she is on low income she will probabley be entitled to Legal Aid. I wouldn't advise going to the CAB, as from personal experience, they have given me completely wrong advice. I also had dealings with a number of different CAB's through my previous job, it was surprising how few of the approaches from them were done either in the correct manner, or by anyone who had the slightest idea what they were talking about.

Just because the marriage/relationship has ended, does not mean that his financial, legal or moral obligation to his children has. A child going to university, is considered by the law, to still be in full-time education, so a court order would be given for maintenance. If the Father wants to go to France and do nothing, then a calculation of the cost of support for the children until they finish full-time education should be done and taken from the proceeds of the sale of the property.

Alternatively, if he has 'hidden' money and declared differently, either in legal agreements, or to the court (or CSA), then that is 'making a false instrument' and is a criminal matter for the Police.

If you know he has money in a specific bank account, if the Court agrees a certain amount, the Court can 'garnishee' an account and seize the money directly from the account. To be considered if the property has already been sold.

The Court has authority to make him produce his bank statements and get him to prove how he maitains his lifestyle - if he says that his girlfriend or family member pays for certain things, HE HAS TO PROVE THIS.

I cannot emphasise the importance of getting a good solicitor for this.

Before anyone starts posting rude replys to this, I would like to point out that I believe fathers (and mothers) who leave their families, should make a reasonable contribution towards the upkeep of their children until they leave full-time education.

The matter of visitation rights is totally different and is not appropriate to this thread.

Fran

I wouldn't advise going to the CAB, as from personal experience, they have given me completely wrong advice. I also had dealings with a number of different CAB's through my previous job, it was surprising how few of the approaches from them were done either in the correct manner, or by anyone who had the slightest idea what they were talking about.

I used to work for the C.A.B. I'm surprised you were given "completely wrong advice" as advisors have 6 months training now and the standards required from funders have gone up too. I don't think you should be advising people not to go to the C.A.B. as it is free access to all sorts of information under one roof. Perhaps your gripe with them is to do with your previous employment (did you work for housing benefit or another similar agency?). It would be unusual to get "completely wrong" advice as the C.A.B. could be taken to court and are very careful about giving correct advice.

Prudent

If you apply for maintainence through the CSA you may be able to overcome this problem.
They will investiagte income where a parent's lifestyle is inconsistant with their stated earnings.If you can prove your case, a new award will be made.

I made an appeal over the award I received for my daughter. My ex husband (ironically a head teacher -paid by society to protect the welfare of children) tried to evade paying full maintance for his child. He declared an annual income of £38,000. His true income is £57,000. This meant I received £151.00 a month less than I should have for my daughter.

I took it to appeal and won. It was a very lenghty process. It was a 8 months before I finally got the full amount. He has to pay back to me (in installments) the amount which did not pay originally.

I don't know if this would work if your ex moved abroad.

jockettuk

for what its worth my child doesnt suffer in love or anything else from me .. My ex husband and i decided to have a child together to love and cherish for the rest all her life.. Our love for each other ended and he moved out and was full of promises for her untill he met up with someone else then all the promises and love etc seems to be waining.. Im the one that has to scrape together the money for school trips and we not talking abt a couple of pounds these days otherwise she will miss out on those so i go without so she doesnt.. he has never gone without in his life and why shouldnt i press for his payment to help with his daughter after all she is both our responsability as parents .. as for the csa.. yes they can help but in my case they made it worse for my daughter

Plumpud_3

I used to work for the C.A.B.  I'm surprised you were given "completely wrong advice" as advisors have 6 months training now and the standards required from funders have gone up too. I don't think you should be advising people not to go to the C.A.B. as it is free access to all sorts of information under one roof. Perhaps your gripe with them is to do with your previous employment (did you work for housing benefit or another similar agency?). It would be unusual to get "completely wrong" advice as the C.A.B. could be taken to court and are very careful about giving correct advice.

As one of my ex-colleagues now volunteers for the CAB, I am fully aware of the 6 months training. It is the equivalent of an evening course, which can usually be done once you have started volunteering.

I don't have a 'gripe' with them. I just don't like them being recommended as some 'cure-all'.

Personally I have had a number of experiences with the CAB's poor advice. When they told me there was no way I could change my eldest daughter's surname without her father's agreement. Despite her being known by a different surname on her medical and school records etc., she still had to have a passport in a different name. Some time later I discovered that as we had not been married all I had to do was a 'change of name deed'. The name change was at my daughter's request - not mine.

My friend consulted them when she left her husband, and was told all sorts of rubbish. I suggested she went to a solicitor for a free consultation, for a second opinion. They soon put her right. As her husband had neglected to divorce his previous wife (who had since died) before they were married (not telling either of them), he was a bigamist, so she couldn't divorce him. The marriage had to be annulled and the Police had to be informed.

I could quote you alot more besides.

As to my previous previous work, I worked for the Inland Revenue. I lost count of the number of times the CAB would phone up to discuss someone's tax affairs, without us having any written authority to deal with them. Despite them supposedly being trained that this is the case for all banks, building societies, other government departments etc. Then we'd get 'I'll fax it through' - no original signature, no good. This was consistant across at least 4 different CAB's. We tried outreach and invited them in to explain what we legally required, but we still got the same response. They never seemed to get the full picture from their client's of their individual situation. They also seemed to have little or no understanding of the very basics of tax, so I often wondered why they were representing someone who usually knew more about it than they did.

Back to my original point, there is no substitute for a good solicitor. One would hope that they know more about their specialist subject after years of full-time training and day to day work experience in the Courts, than a CAB worker with 6 months of night classes. There are bad solicitors as well as good, that is why I said get a good solicitor. They can easily be worth their weight in gold. Sometimes you have to pay for professional advice - but always do your homework first. I have used them at appropriate times through my life - criminal compensation claim, class action against the local council, buying and selling houses, maintenance claims in the Family Court, etc. - and they have saved me or gained me money every time.

Ask around and get recommendations. People always seem to be keen to recommend good solicitors - even if they solicitor in question was representing 'the other side'.

pauljoedavis

Sorry to pour cold water on your hopes but English court orders are not enforceable in France. French law alone applies.

Also the CSA are absolutely toothless.

A friend has been awaiting a single penny from her ex for over 18 months. Each time he moves the process starts again.

Court orders expire after 18th birthday but CSA can claim money for a child up to 19 when in full time education. They claim it but don't get far.

Court orders however can be altered if no longer reasonable but it means a visit to court. Get in quick before second child is 18.

Good luck

Paul

sandra120000

I think you should contact either a Solicitor, the Csa or your local family proceedings court as there is such a thing as a reciprocal maintenance Order.
Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders - or REMO - is the process by which maintenance orders made by UK courts on behalf of UK residents can be registered and enforced by courts or other authorities in other countries against people resident there. I believe that France is a reciprocal country.

cyberactivist

Personally I think its a disgrace that non resident fathers are purused with zeal by envious ex wives who have nothing better to do with their time. There should be some moral responsibility to support your own children IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. My ex wife cohabitted with a window cleaner in the house I paid the mortgage for every month - he had 2 jobs, a side fiddle business and she was working as well AND coining in child benefits, tax credits - the gravy train was in full flow. Ive always been rated as a NIL contirbution due to my very low income and being in FT university as a mature student. The boys are now 21 (out of age for CSA) 20 (now out of age for CSA) and 13 (who I send regular money to anyway and always have done. One of my sons doesnt even acknowledge my existence even though he is showered with pocket money, BDay and Xmas gifts, i have never given up or ignored him. The other two are very close.

However, the CSA have just written to me with a 'recalculation' claiming £15,000 plus in bac payments as the ex wife has told them tons of lies saying I was working a business when I wasn't and also stating I have an inherittance coming after losing my Mum. As soon as my Mum died, the ex was saying she wanted money out of me. I would rather pack up and move abroad than let that vampire have a single penny out of me.

Oh yeah, Ive heard all about impoverished women having to bring up the kids on their own bladi blah... it was her who took the decision to leap into bed with the windowcleaner... her who wanted a divorce.... her who was shacked up claiming benefits she wasnt entitled to with him in the house, poisoning my children against me. So hard up they completely refurbished the house, sometimes two all inclusive med holidays a year and the very latest gismos and gadets galore. hardly seems hard up does it, and especially when the money is payable to the mother and not the children directly. It often is squandered as in the case of my ex wayward Jezebel.

And yeah, I do have an axe to grind. If CSA money is due in line with what can be afforded, then it should go to the kids direct NOT the mothers who seem to save it up for holidays in the sun or a constant supply of new clothes and make up (as in my case). Also if you have no contact whatsoever with the so called 'child' involved despite trying, why the Hell should you have to pay anything. Ive heard of several fathers who are constantly denied access to their children, yet the mother still wants to coin it in from his pockets. Its a disgrace.