Building Regs/No Planning On extension..

nford5

HI everyone,

I'm in desperate need of help or advice if anyone can.. I'm selling my house and was due to complete/exchange next friday but today had a call from the solicitors saying that my buyers solicitor is refusing to complete because he doesnt have a building regs document or completion certificate for an extension on my house..

The house is a terrace and it has a kitchen extension at the back (tiny! 2m out and 4m across). We never had the extension built, it was done in 1992 we think as we have a damp proof course and wall tie certificate for it.. We've been here since 2000, we never had a problem when we moved in or the previous owners before but the solicitor has contacted the council and they have no record of it..

I'm being told that I have to know either get the council in to inspect it or get a structural engineer out to check it at my own cost. I cant believe that they have waited until just over a week to go to drop it on me after they had all the info and certificates months ago!

I'm completely at a loss of what to do and feel like bailing out as I'm being told that if I get the council in and their not happy they can order me to take it down!

Any help or advice would be great, thanks..

itsgototstop

Someone more knowledgeable than me will be along soon but 1992 is 16 years ago, I thought there was a cut off point, in a residential building if the alteration had been in place for over 10 years it was ok?.

selectcase

i think you take out something called indemnity insurance?

nford5

thanks for the replys.. I also thought there was a cut off point but my solicitor isnt being very helpful..

Debt_Free_Chick

But the buyer's solly would have two concerns ....

That the Council could take action against the buyer if there is no PP; and

That the construction is not sound

You are right - the Council can't take any action if there's no PP - not now.

But what about the second point? This is why they want a structural engineer's report.

The indemnity policy will cover the buyer for the first point .... but will it cover them if the extension falls down (no matter how remote a risk that might seem)? I suspect that the structural engineer's report is necessary in order to get insurance for the second point (that the building might be unsound) .... but I can't be sure. Anyone else know?

chappers

Can't see why their solicitor is chasing a 16 year old extension, why should you have a building regs cert, get onto Building control and ask if a cert was issued and if so can you have acopy or ask for a regularisation certificate (although not sure how that works with something so old, my suspicion is that as no one will be able to remember what regs were in place then and will just issue you with it).
An extension from 1992 could well have been archived and not even added to the computer system.
I think if you will be able to get a regularisation cert without too much problem.
As has been said you could take out an indemnity poilicy (usually just a one off fee)doubt it will cost much for a 16 year old extension, but my opinion would be why should you.
Both BC and planning would both consider this extension to be part of the original building now, not that it would have been subject to planning control in the first place(unless it is at the front of your property)

Richard_Webster

The whiole business is not very logical but we are stuck with it.

Planning should be a non-issue because anything built in 1992 should now be immune from nay enforcement under that legislation.

Building control is more difficult. In practical terms the Council would look silly taking enforcement action now, so the chances of it are are almost nil Mortgage lenders can't seem to understand this and most insist that we solicitors check whether or not approvals have been obtained for work that is many years old. As has been said an indemnity policy only protects against enforcement, but you may have to provide this.

The buyer's solicitor's problem in this respect is that it could take a long time to get an answer from a mortgage lender if they write a letter explaining the issue, and the response may not be particularly helpful when it comes, so in a lot of cases it is easier for the seller to pay for one of these policies to speed matters.

Of course, there is the point that without the right certificates etc there is a risk that the extension wasn't built properly and therefore there could be structural failure later. This is true and it may be appropriate to have a surveyor come and check it again.

This has to be put in context. A huge fuss is made about new work because mortgage lenders tell us that they want this but no paper checks are made over work done may be a 100 years ago. For instance a loft conversion now has to be completely right because of fire precautions etc but I am sure there are many old terraced houses, particularly in Northern towns and cities with attic rooms reached by steep twisty stairs that would not meet modern standards, but because they built like that 100 years ago, nobody seems to bother. However mortgage lenders do not seem to subscribe to this kind of logic and their surveyors are forever trying to shift responsibility to someone else and the solicitor ends up getting the blame for making apparently unreasonable demands that come from the inflexible and (I think) illogical attitude of lenders.

This is the CML Handbook part 2 response of the Halifax ( and most lenders)on the point:

5.3 Planning and Building Regulations
5.3.1 You must by making appropriate searches and enquiries take all reasonable steps (including any further enquiries to clarify any issues which may arise) to ensure the property has the benefit of any necessary planning consents (including listed building consent) and building regulation approval for its construction and any subsequent change to the property (see part 2) and its current use; and

5.3.1- Do you limit your requirements in terms of time for:
- planning consents?
No
- building regulation consents?
No

The Nationwide and a few others are more sensible:

.3.1- Do you limit your requirements in terms of time for:
- planning consents?
Yes
- building regulation consents?
Yes
If so please specify your requirements

No time limit is applied in respect of conservation areas and listed buildings.

No investigation is required in respect of both planning and building regulation consent after 10 years has elapsed

FURTHER GUIDANCE FOR CASES WHERE PLANNING/BUILDING REGULATION CONSENT FALLS WITHIN THE 10 YEAR PERIOD SPECIFIED:

If the nature of the breach is such that you recommend indemnity insurance as suitable protection, you may arrange this on our behalf and simply advise us of the situation.

Alternatively, if your advice is that the breach does not require indemnity insurance and is outside the statutory limits for enforcement action, you may proceed on that basis providing the applicants are aware of and accept the risk.

The Halifax's surveyor ought to be advising them whether or not the property will fall down and not leaving it to solicitors to check whether paperwork 10+ years old exists or not.

selectcase

Excellent post Richard - very informative and concise thanks:beer:

rsooty

I had a very similar problem in the house I bought in 2006. The cellar had being converted into a kitchen and there was a bedroom conversion in the loft.
I was very lucky that my solicitor had dealt with a similar problem before and advised me into getting buildings indemnity insurance. We proceeded to getting the vendors to pay for this(around £60), this covers me incase the council decides they want the house putting back to how it was, although I do not think it covers me if the house collapses, your buildings insurance should cover that.

I hope this is help, if you require any more information about this let me know and I will dig out my paperwork.

Richard

selectcase

nford5 wrote: »

my buyers solicitor is refusing to complete because he doesnt have a building regs document or completion certificate for an extension on my house..

I'm being told that I have to know either get the council in to inspect it or get a structural engineer out to check it at my own cost. I cant believe that they have waited until just over a week to go to drop it on me after they had all the info and certificates months ago!

I cant believe that the solicitors have not advised you to take out the indenmity insurance to cover this and also if the purchasers had a survey done (structural) that should cover the regs bit

from what i can see you need to get a surveyor out to check its ok and get the insurance

Porky996T

Just to clarify from an earlier post a structural survey does not cover building regulations on a piece by piece basis or analyse the structure and fabric of the building in regard to current Regs. A Building Survey Report (as we have to call them now - not a Structural Survey) will highlight any significant defects and report back on the structure of the property and highlight significant cost items and recommendations for repair. Additionally, it should highlight "unusual" construction method such as a steel flue from a log burning stove passing within inches of floor joists!!
It will not report on the compliance of the property to current Bld Regs as they are not retrospective.

Regs have changed every year for the the previous 8 years and are due for revision again this year. To report back on the compliance of an old building with regard to current building legislation is an impossible task, and furthermore, people just would not pay the fee for it (nor read the report generated ) or take much action to ensure compliance to todays standards.