Halifax - Fixed Rate ISA

10_66

The person I spoke to understood that it was a transfer in from another ISA manager too. I asked if he was absolutely, positively, unquestionabley sure, so he checked with his manager and got the same answer. Won't feel secure until I get relevant paperwork though! Especially as I went through a really bad experience with a transfer from A & L to Abbey last year (they lost cheques etc, etc).

scot0878

Seems like my wife and myself have also been duped by their offer. Since applying by telephone, I have had to chase the transfer authorisation form up twice, still waiting to hear from them and they have dropped their rates yet again to 5.8% for the 1 year fix.

johnmoney05

7 Jan 08 - Applied on the phone for the 4 years 6.5% fixed rate ISA.
11 Jan 08 - Received letter and form, BUT missing the transfer in form.
14 Jan 08 - Called again, to request the transfer in form. And got confirmed that would get 6.5%, no matter what!
17 Jan 08 - Received transfer form and posted out the form.
24 Jan 08 - Received letter confirmed account opened and waiting for money in from my old ISA, called them again, they confirmed that as long as my fund arrived in 60 days time, I would get the 6.5%
29 Jan 08 - Letter received from old ISA confirmed account closed, money transferred to Halifax.
31 Jan 08 - Called Halifax, confirmed money received. And they will send out confirm letter and also get 6.5%.

So, I think all you guys don't need to worry. If the one you applied was 6.5%, they would honour it. So long as the funds arrive in 60 days time, well, hardly can't!

10_66

Letter received, confirming rate of 6.40% fixed for 1 year.

bungeejump

My experience of trying to open the 6.50% 4 year fixed ISA with the Halifax is none to good and by the time they had processed the paperwork they had cut the rate to 5.25% which was what they gave me.


Less than a month later they relaunched the 4 year fixed rate ISA at 6.20%.

I complained to them about this and their response was that all they had to do to meet the HM Revenue & Customs regulations was complete the transfer in 60 days which they did so tough luck.

If anyone has been promised the higher amount and got it even though the rate fell please let me know.



It is Halifax policy not to contact you if the rate falls between when you apply for the account and when they open it.

The dates the interest rates changed for the 4 year fixed rate ISA were
30th Nov 07 6.50%
18th Jan 08 5.50%
23rd Jan 08 5.25%
20th Feb 08 6.20%

My experience,
22/12/07 – Visited Halifax branch and completed paperwork
15/1/08 - Halifax wrote to me telling me that they had requested the funds from my existing ISA holder (2 weeks to post a letter?)
18/1/08 Current ISA holder wrote to me telling me they had received a transfer request from the Halifax and asking me to return the passbook and signed withdrawal slip.
23/1/08 Current ISA holder wrote to me with cancelled passbook indicating amount had been transferred to Halifax.
12/2/08 Halifax wrote to me confirming the transfer and that the account was credited on 24/1/08 and the funds received on 25/1/08.
18/2/08 Wrote to Halifax to complain about big drop in rate and slow transfer
7/3/08 Letter from Halifax acknowledging complaint and promising reply in 4 weeks
3/4/08 Letter from Halifax to say still investigating and will reply by 2nd May
30/4/08 Letter from Halifax saying that they had met the 60 day deadline and that the rate was the applicable rate on the day they received the funds.

Over 3 months later I’m still waiting for my ‘Certificate of Investment’ which is apparently being sent under separate cover.

If anyone has received the higher rate after the rates fell please PM me / share the details.

Speaking to the Halifax over the phone I also discovered that the penalty for transfer out is 180 days interest. However two people confirmed to me that they will not take any of your capital away. Therefore if you’re locked into the lower rate you can transfer into the new 6.20% rate and only lose the interest since you opened the account which will likely be less than 180 days interest. If you’re stuck with 5.25% it makes sense to transfer to the 6.20%.

For the moment this is what I have done and hopefully they will not cut the rate in the next 7-10 days before they can do the paperwork. I was told that it was no quicker to go into the Branch to complete a transfer as opposed to doing it over the phone.

However I am still keen to get the full 6.50% for me and everyone else here that may have been short changed so please let me know if they honoured the higher rate to you after they cut their rates especially if you have it in black and white.

Milarky

Where does the '60 days' come from - I thought 30 days was bad enough. Do you have any link for that?

Evidently the other provider did not hold things up - they responded within 8 days (6 working days) according to Halifax. On the other hand - just going by the date of the letter from them - which I know should be treated with caution - Halifax, because they took so long to request the transfer in the first place underperformed - and this resulted in detriment (loss of interest rate) to you.

If (big if) Halifax didn't write out until 15th January then that means they took 14 working days. The other provider - assuming (big if again) they got Halifax's letter on 16th January then Halifax received the transfer within 6 working days.

So run the time machine in reverse: Halifax should send a letter in no less time than the actual transfer (once requested) took.

So the maximum reasonable time for Halifax to contact the other provider is 6 working days - time 'being of the essence' since they gave no guarantee on the rate you were applying for. If they had taken no more than 6 working days - that would be a total transfer time of 6 + 6 = 12 working days from 22 December 2007 - which would have meant that your ISA could have been opened Friday 11th Jan - at the latest - fully one week before the rate was changed.

[Can you confirm 15th January as the date when Halifax said they were writing to the other firm - rather than simply the date they informed you they already had? Do the letters from the other firm 'prove' that they weren't written to earlier than 15th January?]

Provided the assumption is correct, Halifax are at fault - because delays at their door (no one else's) meant your ISA was opened on 25(?)th January instead of no later than 11th January.

That's how I would pursue this with them.
- You want reinstatement of your 4 year ISA at the old rate of 6.50%
- You want any lost interest also
- Plus they made a 'mistake' (or if they delayed on purpose - knowingly - it's far worse) and you want compensation. Halifax say they will pay £25 for 'a mistake' - but because they have compounded the initial mistake by not putting things right when you asked them I would ask for two lots of £25 (£50) instead.

You are complaining about a fixed rate offer that was 'conditional' - hence my remark about time being of the essence. Halifax can defend themselves against any third party delays which are beyond their control but they are directly responsible for their own delays which contributed to your loss of interest rate.

When complaining to Halifax the second time (I've found) someone higher up the ladder is then charged with responding - this is usually the first semi-intelligent person you get to deal with your problem so I would expect that this time you will get redress

good luck

Milarky

There's no reference to '60 days' I can find.

On '30 days' what does HMRC Guidance to ISA managers say?

http://www.hmce.eu/isa/isa-guidance-notes-2008.pdf

4.30 ISA managers’ ISA terms and conditions must specify in writing that
[page 32]
either,
• on the instructions of the investor and within the time stipulated by the investor, an ISA with all rights and obligations shall be transferred to another ISA manager

or (where a manager allows partial transfer)

• on the instructions of the investor and within the time stipulated by the investor, an ISA or part of an ISA, shall be transferred to another ISA manager (In addition, the manager may place a minimum period on the time stipulated by the investor for transfer. This period must not exceed 30 days, and should represent whatever reasonable period the manager requires for practical implementation of transfer requests.)

So no ISA manager has a 'free' 30 days to transfer an ISA -whatever they have persuaded themselves is the case- merely operationally they can apply for up to 30 days to do this. This period should be necessary however (i.e. in proportion to the amount of work involved.) Sending out the details already supplied involves little more effort than going to a Post Office (and in the case of Halifax I've been told the Post Office comes to collect all the mail!)

And it also appears to be saying that where the ISA transfer is not partial - but involves the whole account moving elsewhere- there is no provision for 30 days to be allowed anyway.

Baldur

Milarky wrote: »

There's no reference to '60 days' I can find.

A Nationwide staff member also quoted this phantom '60 days' to a friend recently, when enquiries were made about a prolonged transfer into their fixed rate ISA Bond - a formal letter of complaint is currently being drafted in order to rebut this assumption and to claim compensation for any loss of interest resulting from such delays.

johnmoney05

bungeejump wrote: »

If anyone has been promised the higher amount and got it even though the rate fell please let me know.

Please read my post 24 above. I applied my account later than yours. I do get the 6.5%. Did you check on the internet account where your interest rate should show? I didn't get the saving certificate at the first place, but got it after ringing them. And it clearly said the rate of my account was 6.5% for 4 years.

My certificate said my account started on 29th January 2008 for 4 years at 6.5% and would mature at 29th January 2012. If you want I can send you a copy (of course without personal information) to support your claim.

bungeejump

[Can you confirm 15th January as the date when Halifax said they were writing to the other firm - rather than simply the date they informed you they already had? Do the letters from the other firm 'prove' that they weren't written to earlier than 15th January?]

I can, I have all the letters. Halifax wrote me a letter on 15th January to say that they were requesting the funds from my current ISA provider. Since I have a passbook I received a letter from my current ISA provider on 18th January asking me to return the passbook and sign a withdrawal slip. So the 6 days my old provider took to process this included a letter to me and me returning my passbook.

So there is no doubt it took the Halifax 2 weeks to post the initial letter requesting the transfer.

I don't understand why they could not have printed off a letter when I was in the branch for me to give to my current ISA provider. Then I could have just walked down the street and handed it and my passbook in.

To quote the 60 day claim the Halifix made in their reply to my complaint,

“HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) regulations state that an ISA transfer request must be actioned within 60 days. Halifax policy is that the funds will be invested in a Halifax ISA the day after the date on the ISA transfer form, to ensure that our customers receive a continuous investment. Our records confirm that you signed the Customer Authority on the 22nd December 2007, the Cheshire Building Society transfer form was dated 23rd January 2008 and the funds were deposited into your Halifax ISA on the 24th January 2008.“

I don't know if they are trying to say they have 60 days to initiate the transfer?

4.30 ISA managers’ ISA terms and conditions must specify in writing that
[page 32]
either,
• on the instructions of the investor and within the time stipulated by the investor, an ISA with all rights and obligations shall be transferred to another ISA manager

or (where a manager allows partial transfer)

• on the instructions of the investor and within the time stipulated by the investor, an ISA or part of an ISA, shall be transferred to another ISA manager (In addition, the manager may place a minimum period on the time stipulated by the investor for transfer. This period must not exceed 30 days, and should represent whatever reasonable period the manager requires for practical implementation of transfer requests.)

Milarky, is this referring to the manager you are transferring the ISA from, the manager you are transferring the ISA to or both?

I transferred the full amount of the ISA into the Halifax.