Electrical Regs Part P who is right?

spark1

babs wrote: »

Just talked to husband who is a building inspector. He states that if the light switch is WITHIN 3 metres of the sink it needs to be a pull cord. Nothing to do with they type of room it is (this would still apply in a kitchen if the sink is withing 3 metres.) However, it can come down to a bit of common sense - bascially if you can stand at the sink and turn the light off then it needs to be a pull cord. If its not quite the 3 metres and you can't turn it off stood at the sink they may be a bit more lenient with you. All to do with health and safety - electricity and water!

Tell him to sit the 2391 Im sure he would pass it :rotfl:

moonrakerz

babs wrote: »

Just talked to husband who is a building inspector. He states that if the light switch is WITHIN 3 metres of the sink it needs to be a pull cord. Nothing to do with they type of room it is (this would still apply in a kitchen if the sink is withing 3 metres.)

In that case most of the new houses being built do not comply ! I have NEVER seen a kitchen with a pull cord light switch.

babs

My mistake, in some of things I put as was chatting to hubby about this thread over tea and got the wrong end of the stick about some things he said. Anyway now sat beside me telling me what to put.

The building regulations only state that the electrical installation should be SAFE - Part P and the BS7671 are just for GUIDANCE and one way of showing compliance with the regulations, as are all the approved documents. However, an applicant may prove compliance with the regulations in some other way. For example European standards.

What is deemed as being SAFE to comply with building regs is open to intereptation. Electricians are supposed to have been complying with BS7671 for many years, its only since Part P in Jan 2005 that the law has forced them to. Unfortuately this task has fallen on BCO's. Most BCO's didn't want the job of controlling electrical work and it was forced upon them by the government. Most building control sections do not have the staff resources or finance to deal with this work.

Most new houses now have the kitchen sinks remote from the light switch or electric sockets making them difficult to reach whilst stood at the sink. Isolator for extract fans are usually positioned outside the bathroom as are most light switches for downstairs loo's (they are off the hall.) Its all down to what you interpret as safe.

At the end of the day, much to the dismay of many electricians its the BCO's job (nobody elses) to decide if the regs have been complied with and the work is safe. If the applicant disagrees then its up to a magistrates court to decide.

For the record, Part P was introduced because an electrician didn't do his job properly and installed a hidden cable in an incorrect zone, resulting in an M.P's daughter being electrocuted from a kitchen utility rack which became live when the fixings penetrated cable insulation.

Oh, and hubby says to Spark 1 - you sit the building control engineering degree - I am sure you will pass that!

ozskin

funny that while the cable was installed in the wrong way in the wall the person in question drilled and installed a metal shelf on the wall and then bang. dead. while very tragic and the wiring installed diagonally in wall with no capping if memory serves, if you are drilling into a wall without any knowledge or testers then maybe you should be a candidate for the darwin awards after all. If in doubt dont DIY, GSI. Its funny that if a mere mortal, not the inept and possibly corrupt political classes (today peter hain spring to mind tomorrow who knows) did this then do you think the regs would have changed, please debate

babs

Of course there wouldn't be Part P if it wasn't an M.P's daughter that had died. We now live in a world that has become a blame culture and people look for somebody to blame and sue.

The electrician installed the cable incorrectly, so now an electrician has to sign a certificate (they were supposed to sign it before but many didn't - hence its now being enforced by BCO's) stating the work complies with bs7671 and if it transpires it does not there is some comeback and the Electrician in this case could have been charged with manslaughter.

Canucklehead

babs wrote: »

Of course there wouldn't be Part P if it wasn't an M.P's daughter that had died.

Good morning: Consultation on Part P predates the death of former Richmond MP Jenny Tonge's daughter in excess of 2 years... http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/regulationsnewrequirementselectr


HTH

Canucklehead

sloth

@ HugpSP

Hi,

regarding your comments on the previous page of this thread, that if one is already paying the BCO fee for a conversion, then that fee also covers the Part P Electrical inspection of the same conversion, can i just check i am understainding the following correctly?

We are planning a loft conversion which will hopefully be built in a few months time. We have submitted full plans to the council, paid the planning fee and the first lot of BCO fee. I am not building the conversion itself however i will be doing the insulating, internal walls, tiling and all decorating.I was also planning on doing the wiring (is basically just going to be one new loop for sockets (only two bedrooms) and a new lighting circuit). I have installed whole new wiring cisrcuits previously prior to the Part P regs so am happy in what i am doing but obviously now the Part P has come in things have changed. I have a friend who has been an electrician for the last 40 years or so who i am going to ask to install a new consumer unit for me (we need a bigger one beacuse of the extra circuits) and connect the new circuits to it. However because he is really retired he is not able to issue the Part P certifcate for me.

Sorry for the rambling but my question is basically as we are having the loft conversion done can you confirm that what you were saying previously is correct in that because we are paying the BCO the fee for checking the whole structure that also encompasses the electrics and so we don't need an actual seperate Part P certificate? If that is correct is there something you can direct me to that confirms this that i can show to the BCO

thanks for any help

mercurystar999

If you have paid the fee, you do not now need to issue the certificate yourself. It is included within the fee paid. You do need to be a competent person which may be the stumbling block.

sloth

mercurystar999 wrote: »

If you have paid the fee, you do not now need to issue the certificate yourself. It is included within the fee paid. You do need to be a competent person which may be the stumbling block.

thanks for the reply

how is a competent person defined though since as far as i am aware there is no particular qualification needed?

thanks

BobProperty

Canucklehead wrote: »

Good morning: Consultation on Part P predates the death of former Richmond MP Jenny Tonge's daughter in excess of 2 years... http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/regulationsnewrequirementselectr


HTH

Canucklehead

But that having happened made it less likely that Part P would be dropped. Having said that, it's the way of the world, Share Fishermen and benefit systems anyone?