Ryanair overbookings?

Sam_Bee

bagand96 wrote: »

It is very confusing though. Generally scheduled airlines are viewed as the traditional model such as British Airways, Air France KLM etc. The low cost airlines don't fit that model, and a lot of people are using "low cost" as a third classification for airlines, which of course is not wrong.

There's a lot of unneccessary sniping going on over a relatively minor issue. I think there is a perception of lo-co carriers being a third classification. OAG or not, the trade do not classify Ryanair, or Easyjet etc as a scheduled airline as you cannot book them via a CRS (computerised reservation system) that lets you book all other scheduled airlines (including Silverjet, Maxjet) etc.

peterbaker

I think the point is, Sam Bee, that Ryanair in particular have torn up the rule book and become the biggest player in these parts.

I would assume that their success means that far more people buy flights direct from the airline than via any booking agent or "the trade" if you like to still call it a trade.

Because they don't fit any previous category, and agree only to abide by rules that suit them today, it means simply that we must watch them like hawks as every "normal" 'trade' function is constantly under their review to see if they can milk new revenue from it or obliterate a process. For example, the first big change I remember was in the early 90s when "ticketless" travel was introduced, which actually took some years for the authorities to give in to. Now we effectively have "check-in-less" travel, baggage-less travel, disabled-less travel (unless you are one of the lucky four max per flight), border-less travel (except UK) and of course "seat-less" travel (you find your own).

You cannot expect airport security staff to "check-in" the travellers and the baggage properly, but that's effectively what has been suddenly expected of them, and all this hot upon the heels of the increase terrorist threat workloads. With Web-Check-In, I really am not at all sure what level of effective 'check' is actually done now. And I am sure the new systems are full of holes simply because there are so many different ones. You see some diligent security people apparently approving all manner of inkjet or laser-printed print-outs as evidence of Web-Check-In of the correct passenger for the correct booking, but if you look carefully - their eyes are continually glazed over! How can they possibly tell if the name on the passport and the name on your inkjet print-out is actually you? Do they really identify you against your photograph? Unless they are of the same ethnic group as you, they are most unlikely to possess the inate skill to do so. And what is to stop you from using a cheap boarding card your friend has obtained at the desk for another flight to get airside without showing your passport and then making your way to your web check in flight instead? And with an airline like Ryanair, what useful record would there be of the unused (manual) boarding card? None. Beyond very rudimentary weight and balance adjustments on the flights, I doubt Ryanair is barely interested in whether paying passengers actually fly on the flights they have bought. Their business is so far removed from the old 'trade' ideas, that I seriously doubt that 'overbooking' has even entered their minds. In their business model, control of passengers is generally just an inconvenience, messing around with overbooking is an unnecessary control issue for them. They do not want to control people throughput. They only want revenue throughput.

It is a system ripe for people-traffickers and other ner-do-wells to exploit, and it should be stopped. But it won't be, because no-one is regulating the 'trade' anymore or calling the shots. Oh yes, there are regulators. But in name only. Actions by would be far better, but don't hold your breath.

As for cost-savings through introduction of new procedures, I am wholly unconvinced they benefit anyone other than Ryanair, and not as a cost saving, but as a new Revenue stream. By way of example, because I forgot to check in online recently, I got a chance to discuss the "manual" check in charge with a non-UK airport. They told me they don't get a penny of the charges they collect. In fact it puts them in a new loss-making situation as they usually don't even charge credit card fees either if you pay your £2 that way, and they also have to have someone working on the collections desk all through the check-in periods. I am told Ryanair is very strict with them if they have dared waive charges and issued 'free' manual boarding cards.

But maybe this low cost thing will be scaled down soon ... carbon footprints are becoming more and more frowned upon, load factors are the lowest I have seen them, maybe the novelty of low-cost is wearing thin ... if I was Michael O'Leary I might be worried about finding work for all those new Boeings I had ordered ... but then I am sure he has worked out an escape clause

PaulA

Sam_Bee wrote: »

There's a lot of unneccessary sniping going on over a relatively minor issue. I think there is a perception of lo-co carriers being a third classification. OAG or not, the trade do not classify Ryanair, or Easyjet etc as a scheduled airline as you cannot book them via a CRS (computerised reservation system) that lets you book all other scheduled airlines (including Silverjet, Maxjet) etc.

What utter nonsense, of course the Airline Industry (in which I work) classifies Ryanair as scheduled, they publish schedules via OAG (and Innovator) for some purposes, they file for and hold scheduled slots, their flights are IATA service type J (Schedule Passenger Normal Service) and they sell tickets individually rather than as a block (like a charter).

The "Travel Agent" industry may not want to consider them as scheduled as they don't distribute via GDS and they don't pay commission!

bagand96

It is a system ripe for people-traffickers and other ner-do-wells to exploit, and it should be stopped. But it won't be, because no-one is regulating the 'trade' anymore or calling the shots. Oh yes, there are regulators. But in name only. Actions by would be far better, but don't hold your breath.

Interesting points, however they don't just apply to Ryanair. Ryanair were by no means the first to introduce Web Check-in, the British Airway's and Lufthansa's of the world were way ahead of them on that. Ryanair's online check in system is no worse, or indeed better, than that of many other airlines that use the system.

if I was Michael O'Leary I might be worried about finding work for all those new Boeings I had ordered ... but then I am sure he has worked out an escape clause

Ryanair are getting rid of the 737-800's that were delivered 5 years ago!!! They've worked out that at five years old the operating and maintenance costs begin to increase. Its cheaper to operate a brand new one fresh from Boeing, complete with warranty! And because they got such a massive discount from Boeing at the time they ordered, they are not loosing much by doing this, the resale value is comparitively good. Madness I know!

There's a lot of unneccessary sniping going on over a relatively minor issue. I think there is a perception of lo-co carriers being a third classification. OAG or not, the trade do not classify Ryanair, or Easyjet etc as a scheduled airline as you cannot book them via a CRS (computerised reservation system) that lets you book all other scheduled airlines (including Silverjet, Maxjet) etc.

Sorry if you think I was sniping, I genuinely didn't mean to come accross that way, and have tried to get accross in my posts that it does depend how you look at it.

The travel agent trade don't consider low cost airlines scheduled. Other trades such as the CAA, Air Traffic Control, Licensing etc do.

Guess we'll all have to agree to disagree, and like you said it is a minor issue,

OK_Sauce

There was a very interesting report on BBC's Working Lunch today about your rightsregarding overbooked flights. Summise to say even a two hour delay can be compensated.

Here's a link to the report

http://www.bbc.co.uk/broadband/mediaplayer/players/bbc2/bb_wm_console.shtml?redirect=console.shtml&lang=en&nbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1&bbram=1&bbcws=1&package=4588780&clip=wl_mon_140108_segment4

I can't make the link shorter. sorry!

vixarooni

I wish this had arisen 2 weeks ago. Just done a big assignment on Ryanair paying particular reference to their strategy!

alanrowell

I can't see how web checkin on Ryanair can help people trafficking as only EU citizens can use it and they have an automatic right of entry to most of the EU.

stoneman

alanrowell wrote: »

I can't see how web checkin on Ryanair can help people trafficking as only EU citizens can use it and they have an automatic right of entry to most of the EU.

Not so. I am a U.S. citizen. I used online check-in a couple of months ago to fly to spain. All that was required was that I stated before using it that I was an EU citizen. Easy as pie to get around, saved me paying for airport check-in

Sam_Bee

PaulA wrote: »

What utter nonsense, of course the Airline Industry (in which I work) classifies Ryanair as scheduled, they publish schedules via OAG (and Innovator) for some purposes, they file for and hold scheduled slots, their flights are IATA service type J (Schedule Passenger Normal Service) and they sell tickets individually rather than as a block (like a charter).

The "Travel Agent" industry may not want to consider them as scheduled as they don't distribute via GDS and they don't pay commission!

How petty to get so upset over such a minor point. In being such a stickler you completely missed the point - being that a) different groups of people classify them as different things (i.e. the travel travel trade which I work in, I don't particularly give a rats behind for the airline trade) and b) it doesn't actually matter as there is no right and wrong. (BTW does anyone pay commission? No thought not!).

Anyway, Peter Baker, I completely agree with your first paragraph, and i'm still waiting for your book!

alanrowell

stoneman wrote: »

Not so. I am a U.S. citizen. I used online check-in a couple of months ago to fly to spain. All that was required was that I stated before using it that I was an EU citizen. Easy as pie to get around, saved me paying for airport check-in

So you lied - well you were lucky especially with Spain's requirement for Advanced Passenger Data

To qualify for Online Check-in each passenger must present either a valid passport or National Identity Card, issued by the government of an EU/ European Economic Area (EEA) country which matches the document details printed on their online boarding pass, at both airport security and the departure gate.
https://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/faqs.php?sect=chk&quest=children