Grade II listed property

ITCHYMUPPET

Hello

My home was originally built in 1750.

It was purchased around 2013 by English Heritage and rebuilt/refurbished as a period property using materials that would have been in use at the time it was originally built.

As you can imagine, it has very thin walls (essentially a single brick fascia with lime plaster inside and no insulation), original roof tiles with no loft/insulation, timber frame windows single glazed with secondary glazing at the front of the property only to reduce road noise and timber doors,none of which fit snugly into their frames.

It is boiling hot in the Summer and freezing cold in the Winter. There is gas fired central heating but quite frankly, it would be cheaper to set fire to a pile of cash to keep warm around that. When it is cold, in order to keep even the chill off, I would need to run it continuously. I tried this and it cost an absolute fortune.

I can't have smart meters because the electricity meter is installed in such a way (inside the house) that makes it virtually impossible to change without dismantling a huge brick fireplace and even if it was changed, the gas meter (outside the house) is approximately 20 meters away with lots of brick walls in the way. Morrisons Data surveyed the job for my energy supplier and said it couldn't be done.

The only saving grace is that my living room has a multifuel burner so I can at least keep one room cosy during the coldest weather.

This does of course mean that I am unable to monitor my daily energy usage and take advantage of the off peak, free power offers et al.

Is anyone else in this position and do you know of any practical help that's available? I have explained this to my energy supplier and they were no help at all. Having researched it, I can't find anything.

Note that because it is grade 2 listed, I am not allowed to make any material changes to the physical appearance of the property or change any of the existing build eg composite windows/doors or additional insulation.

A long post but thanks in advance if you have any suggestions.

marlot

That sounds rough! I have memories of ice on the inside of our single glazed windows.

My father built some lightweight wooden frames which he put into the window recesses each winter. Think picture frame type weight. Each had a polythene type cover. They worked remarkably well on the single glazed windows, and had the advatage that they were not permanent but did make the house much warmer. Could you do something similar?

happyretiree

No answers here I’m afraid other than to empathise. My daughter lives in a one up one down grade 2 listed building. Her issue is with internet providers. BT is cutting off non digital lines. She can’t have Sky cos it would be attached to the building. The lane she lives in is grade 2 listed as well so Virgin et al can’t dig it up for cabling. She can’t get mobile phone reception in her house. She’s with plusnet who keep trying to get BT to send a surveyor out to look at what can be done. BT in their time wasting ignorance have at various times sent out ordinary engineers who say it needs a BT surveyor. Fingers crossed for her fifth appointment with, theoretically, a BT surveyor.

QrizB

Welcome to the forum.

My home was originally built in 1750. It was purchased around 2013 by English Heritage and rebuilt/refurbished as a period property using materials that would have been in use at the time it was originally built.

Is it still owned by English Heritage and you're their tenant? Or did they decide to sell it and you're the current owner?

ITCHYMUPPET

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82152728#Comment_82152728

I own it but it is still under the covenant of EH.

ITCHYMUPPET

Oh yes I know about that.

No ariels or satellite dishes.

Luckily BT were able to sort of discreetly put a phone line in so my internet is reasonable.

The house does have ducting to the main BT conduits underground but for some bizarre reason, they were never connected. It was never established whos fault this was but EH let the BT line go through without objection.

ITCHYMUPPET

I have thought about this but given that the secondary glazing at the front doesn't really improve matters, I don't think doing the back would make much, if any, difference.

But thanks for the suggestion.

QrizB

I own it but it is still under the covenant of EH.

OK, thanks. That gives a few more options.

I can't have smart meters because the electricity meter is installed in such a way (inside the house) that makes it virtually impossible to change without dismantling a huge brick fireplace and even if it was changed, the gas meter (outside the house) is approximately 20 meters away with lots of brick walls in the way. Morrisons Data surveyed the job for my energy supplier and said it couldn't be done.

In principle, you could have your electricity supply point moved to be closer to your gas meter. You could then have your meters changed to be smart. I don't know quite how much this would cost but even on a non-listed property it would be over £1000.

That wouldn't necessarily help you, though, as your heating is currently gas and there aren't any cheap "smart" gas tariffs, so you'd make some savings on electricity but heating would still be expensive.

There is gas fired central heating but quite frankly, it would be cheaper to set fire to a pile of cash to keep warm around that. I tried this and it cost an absolute fortune.

Even if you were to replace your gas boiler with a heat pump, with current electricity and gas prices you might only save 20% on your gas bill (and you might not even save that). It might only cost a medium-sized fortune rather than an absolute one.

The only saving grace is that my living room has a multifuel burner so I can at least keep one room cosy during the coldest weather.

This is no real help, but you're using the house more-or-less as the builders intended. Do you have functional chimneys in any other rooms? Would fitting more solid-fuel stoves be an option?

My childhood home was an early-19th-century one with solid walls, period windows and no central heating. We had a solid-fuel Rayburn in the kitchen and initially an open fire, later a multifuel stove, in the lounge. The kitchen and lounge were adequately warm most of the time.

Ildhund

@happyretiree wrote:

My daughter's […] issue is with internet providers. 

Starlink?

lohr500

Have they ruled out just changing the electricity meter to a smart one?
The footprint of the smart meter we have now isn't much bigger than the old dumb meter it replaced.

Also, do you know if the electricity meter was changed back in 2013? Even if it was, it could well be past its certification age by now anyway and should be replaced.

At least if you could get a smart electricity meter (assuming it would be able to send/receive the signal) then that would give you access to a range of smart meter tariffs.

I would be pushing them again to review the situation with the electricity meter. I don't think there is any requirement for you to have a smart gas meter if you have a smart electricity meter but I could be wrong.

With regard to loft insulation, I googled the question of loft insulation in Grade II listed buildings and it seems to suggest that laying removable insulation over the ceiling isn't a no, no and is OK so long as it can't be seen, is a reversible process and doesn't alter or damage the historic fabric of the building.
It talks about contacting your local council conservation officer. If you haven't had a discussion yet with the conservation officer, I would do so. And also challenge any advice that loft insulation can't be used.

You are probably doing this anyway, but keeping curtains closed as much as possible will help to keep the heat in. And using weighted door sealers along the bottom edges of the external doors will help keep out any draughts.
I wonder if stick on sponge foam draught sealing tape would be acceptable around the door and window frames to help as well? It isn't a permanent fixture and can easily be removed without damaging the frames. If not, perhaps pack the cracks in any infrequently used external door frames with cardboard strips.

The other thing to look at is heated electric throws to keep yourself warm in the winter rather than trying to keep the main living rooms heated to a comfortable temperature. Electric throws use very little electricity. We have one and its great. But I think it is important to keep some background heating on to avoid damp problems.

StewedApple

Is it worth having a conversation with the local Planning Office? Any work which you do will need to pass muster with them, and they may be give you a steer either on what to avoid or possibly the sorts of contractors who are capable of making changes.

Not going to be cheap doing any changes to a listed building. The other thing you could look at (if there are similar properties nearby) is to review the planning applications to see if any of that assists your thinking - I'm not certain, but I think all work to listed buildings is likely to appear on the local authority website - and as it's free to use it'll cost you nothing to rule it out.