Boiler moved and doesn't work now - asking for payment

angelasocks

Hi thank you for all comments. I've been reading them and trying to understand all the technical details, not there yet.

I don't know what the gas company said to WB. If they didn't tell them the full story it doesn't sit well with me. If I contact WB to tell them, I'm not sure what can of worms I'm opening. I'd have to think that one through. Maybe trading standards at least for some advice to start.

My electrician did wire the controls he said they were tricky but he's done loads of jobs for me and friends with zero issues. I genuinely trust him. Again I can't prove anything unfortunately.

See what tomorrow brings.

Thank you again

WIAWSNB

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82142779#Comment_82142779

If you are happy with the boiler fully working, at no additional cost to you, then probably best to call it quits and accept that.

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82142779#Comment_82142779

I don't know what the gas company said to WB. If they didn't tell them the full story it doesn't sit well with me. If I contact WB to tell them, I'm not sure what can of worms I'm opening.

This is what I meant about this thread being good as a "money moral dilemma". If the installer has damaged the flow sensor then they shouldn't submit a warranty repair claim. But the question is whether they have damaged it, or if there is a design/manufacturing fault.

We simply don't know, and no amount of speculation on this thread is going to produce a definitive answer.

WIAWSNB is fairly convinced the damage has been caused by an incompetent installer. But equally WIAWSNB has said they don't know how the sensor works, that they are surprised that reverse flow would damage the sensor, and -

WIAWSNB Said:

(Some mysteries remain… How did the boiler seemingly produce some hot water when the flow was reversed?! Based on my GlowWorm boiler, tho', the flow switch is a simple turbine with a magnet and a hall switch - there is no reason I can think of why it would not operate in either direction. Perhaps they have a mechanical device to prevent reverse turning? No idea. But if the flow switch did operate the boiler to provide DHW, could the cold water get through the boiler the wrong way, and still be heated? No idea, but again I can see it happening, provided the diverter valve was allowing it.)

My take on the situation is there is no clear evidence that reverse flow would damage the sensor. I've read the installation instructions and can't see anything warning of this risk. In fact the only mention of reverse flow I could find in the installation instructions suggests the designers have allowed for some reverse flow to be a possibility which the installer needs to have in mind.

The only suggestion that reverse flow has damaged the sensor appears to be from the repair person, who WIAWSNB dismisses as incompetent. If they* are incompetent, then why attach any weight to their diagnosis? It makes no logical sense to trust the opinion of someone whose competence is questioned so much. (*the installer)

What is fairly certain in my mind is that if you contact WB and tell them about 'reverse flow', and this leads them to reject the warranty claim then (if it turns out WIAWSNB has guessed wrong) you will have very little comeback on the installer - and they would have a fairly strong case to claim the cost of the repair (parts and labour) from you. Remember - it is possible the sensor had a manufacturing fault in addition to the installer making an error with the pipes. The only way to prove/disprove this would be to get an expert forensic report on the sensor - for which you could probably expect a bill of £1000 or more. Way cheaper to just pay for the replacement (if it came to that).

I don't think you have any chance of making the installer carry out a repair (for free) if you tell WB that it shouldn't be done as a warranty claim.

As it is the installer - not you - making the warranty claim, in my view you have neither a legal or moral obligation to contact WB. Doing so only has downsides for you. As a layperson you aren't expected to know the technical details, you rely on the advice of the installer you've employed.

Let them get on with the job, then see how things stand afterwards.

My electrician did wire the controls he said they were tricky but he's done loads of jobs for me and friends with zero issues. I genuinely
trust him. Again I can't prove anything unfortunately.

Did he also do the gold/brass double socket near the floor in the bedroom (can be seen in the 'after' photo) ?

100% agree with your comment about proof.

Edit: Just seen WIAWSNB's latest post. I agree with that.

WIAWSNB

The company's own engineer said the switch was likely damaged by the reverse flow.

AS is a layperson, and doesn't need to 'know' what has happened. All they need to know is that it should be repaired, either by WB or the company, at no additional cost to them.

It's all 'balance of probabilities', and I have explained why this is overwhelming.

Provided the company makes no suggestion of additional payment being required, then AS is good to go, if she is happy to accept this, which I suspect she is.

Personally, I'd be seeking clarity on the 'wiring error', insisting the pipe loops are tidied up and soldered - if not sunk under the floor, and obviously be holding them to a FOC repair.

They have given enough ammo to be held against them.

angelasocks

Thank you again Wiawsnb and Section 62.

Engineer finally came out today. Hot water working again and the weird screechy sound has disappeared. The engineer was the same one that originally said the pipes were crossed. I asked him if he thought the issue was due to an installation fault, he said he wasn't sure.

I've not been asked for any money, so that's good. Just hoping and crossing fingers this is the end of it.

Thank you for helping me out with this, at least I know a little more about boilers and warranties.