BYD EV range over 1000km

born_again

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82116456#Comment_82116456

Ix3 has a bigger battery (108.7 usable) yet does less range than the BYD ?

Grumpy_chap

So, in my TM3, over 3 years I have covered 35.5k miles and the display shows that has been at an overall 208 kWh / Mile. That works out to a fraction under 5 miles / kWh. (Many TM3 drivers seem to get a less favourable outcome than I have achieved, but better than 4 miles / kWh.)

That is the display figure so I think means just energy while driving and does not take account of charging losses, vampire drains etc. Still, I guess that is the correct figure to use as, if the battery is fully charged and the car is simply driven, there are no charging losses or vampire drains.

The BYD seems to be claiming a fraction under 6 miles / kWh. That is an improvement of 20% against the TM3 and I understand that the TM3 has one of the highest miles / kWh figures in the market place.

Is it really plausible for a step change of 20% improvement to be achieved in one go?

Even if it is achievable, from a product development perspective - certainly when I used to work in product development (not automotive) - if we did get something that was a big step change, so 20%, we would not take the full change to market in one go but would release 5% or something improvement. This meant when our competitors caught up, we could add another 5% so always keeping ahead.

Goudy

I was interested in this jump as well and it appears there are a few things that have contributed to it, but the result is the new BYD Blade 2 battery technology packs more usable energy into it as a whole.

There is a difference between what you can jam into a battery theoretically and what the software allows, so batteries like this are measured in system density levels rather then total levels.

Due to various improvements with how the battery is made, the Blade 2 has a system energy density level of around 162Wh/Kg. That's around 8% better that the last incarnation of the the Blade 1 and a step up on the Tesla's 125Wh/Kg.

The overall total possible densities are much higher 210 to Teslas 162, so BYD aren't dipping into the battery total capacity just to improve their headline figures.

It appears they are just getting more from less.

How they have done this isn't down to just one thing but a host of improvements like changing the materials of the cathode and anodes and solving some inherent problems. Some of this you can read about, there are plenty of reports and reviews around other than what comes out of China.

I think BYD are keeping certain things close to their chest at the moment. It's not certain if this first gen Blade 2 is lithium iron phosphate. If it is, it's thought it's at the limit of what is possible or it could be lithium manganese iron phosphate. They have registered some patents regarding protection from manganese dissolution, but made that's their next step.

You'd also need to factor in things like weight and drag. I believe the Da Han has a far better drag coeffiencncy than the Ix3 and the TM3. A better comparison would perhaps be with the Mercedes EQS for everything bar price.

matt_drummer

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82117636#Comment_82117636

Surely a 102 kWh battery is a 102 kWh battery?

There isn't more usable energy is there over any other battery of the same usable capacity?

The gains in efficiency can only come from elements other than the battery capacity as they are claiming 6 miles per kWh.

Any other ev would go just as far in proportion to their usable battery capacity if they could achieve 6 miles per kWh

Goudy

As we know the figures BYD claim are CLTC and are basically "city" or unban figures. Most understand even WLTP figures are controlled in a way that flatters the manufacturers.

It's their progress in battery technology that should be the main point.

More energy dense batteries can be smaller and lighter, which is not a bad thing..

They've increased the cycle life and seem to have great results regarding degradation. A gripe we all know exists.

They now have ability to recharge really quickly, maybe even faster than filling a petrol tank and going inside to pay. This is removing all those obstacle and barriers that get thrown up regarding EV's.

Yes some of these headlines will likely be fudged just like everyone else's headlines and we all would predict another manufacturer releasing a similar "world beating" headline sometime very soon.

There's also a faint whiff of truth to these headlines, they are based of something to start with, They lie and cheat, yes but within the regulations of the time.

So now the next manufacturer will work harder for their headline and so on. Even this faint whiff of truth is pushing everything along in the right direction.

It's perhaps not the most ideal way to progress, but it's what we and they have. It's been like this forever in the industry, the next has almost always had more power, more efficiency, more safety, cleaner, leaner, sleeker, faster. We have better today than we had yesterday and they'll progress the same way tomorrow

MouldyOldDough

Do EV's actually achieve more miles per charge if you drive slower and accelerate more gently ?

Grumpy_chap

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82118825#Comment_82118825

Yes.

The laws of physics are unchanged whether you have an EV or an ICE.

born_again

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82117755#Comment_82117755

It's not uncommon for batteries to have a gross & usable capacity.

Such as ix5 gross 147.8 to 148 kWh usable 141kWh. (a nice way to hide battery degradation)

So it all depends on what BYD are claiming?

Although I'm going to guess usable, as that is the norm for BYD with only one figure.

WellKnownSid

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82118825#Comment_82118825

Generally speaking.

On a cold morning I tend to give the Zoe extra beans and up the regen because it warms the battery up - the 20 mile school run can knock 12% off the battery in Winter but it's nearer to 9% driving "enthusiastically" because the battery has warmed up.

forgotmyname

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82118825#Comment_82118825

As with petrol/diesel EV's will be the same there will be a sweet spot where you need just enough torque
for the road conditions above that.

Thinking of the throttle as a torque tap rather than a speed adjuster, your going up a hill the car needs xxNm of torque to maintain
a set speed so using more torque is a waste.

If xxNm cannot maintain a set speed you need to increase the torque.