New boiler to replace Worcester

Alanp

recommending boilers is a bit like asking what’s the best car, everyone will tell you something different, if you need a replacement why not stick with WB

Albermarle

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82003605#Comment_82003605

Plus if you ask 20 plumbers/heating engineers about anything, you will get 20 different answers.

FreeBear

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82003605#Comment_82003605

Whilst the majority of plumbers will recommend WB, the more advanced controls are expensive. Switching to a boiler that supports OpenTherm such as Alpha & Viessmann opens up a much wider range of smart controls.

TELLIT01

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82002729#Comment_82002729

I'm in a similar situation, again with a Worcester boiler. It's 18 years old and in the past 18 months both manifolds (at least I think that's what the engineer called them) have leaked badly and been replaced. Leaks were about a year apart. I'm now worrying about what else may start leaking as the boiler is above the kitchen and the leaks made a real mess of the ceiling. Fortunately only cosmetic as I spotted both quite quickly. I dread to think of the damage if it had happened when we were away.

Alanp

we had our 17 year old viessman boiler replaced last October, we went with viessman again..

yomagsy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82004835#Comment_82004835

Oh dear. I keep being told that worcester are reliable but at the last service, the engineer told me that they are the most repaired boiler in his company. Better safe than sorry, I will be replacing mine this summer. Best of luck to you.

Albermarle

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82006175#Comment_82006175

Almost certainly another engineer would have told you a different story, and another one a different story again. They all seems to have different opinions.

WIAWSNB

Ha-ha - all of the above is true.

GasSafes will have their favourites, whether it's their true belief borne from years of experience, or because it's the make they are familiar with and can install with their eyes shut, or because - cough - they get a nice bonus from recommending them, I don't know.

But, from this forum, I have become aware of one thing - boiler manufacturers need taking out for a looong drive, and given a stiff talking to.

Why? Because they haven't agreed on an industry-standard control system, which would ensure every customer gets the maximum efficiency out of their new boiler.

If you choose a boiler due to GS 'recommendation' or personal 'preference', have it installed, and allow the GS to fit controls of their choice, chances are you'll miss out on fine-tuned efficiency of up to 10-15% (Google…), which could translate to £100-200 per year in excess gas consumption.

Eg, fit a Worcester (nice…) and Hive controls (nice also…) and you'll lose a potential ~10% overall efficiency. Why? Because the latest Hive uses 'Opentherm' protocol, and the W-B uses their own. (And, from my limited personal experience, W-B's controls are tatty.)

As much as I 'rate' W-B as a boiler manufacturer, I would not buy one for the above reason alone. Who the hell wants to throw away a coupleofhundredsquid every year for no good reason? Or suffer second-rate controls?

So - personally - I would choose a boiler make that uses a control system that I 'like'.

FreeBear

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82006175#Comment_82006175

WB is one of the most common boilers, so not really any surprise that the majority of call-outs are for WB.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82006302#Comment_82006302

Whilst I could have fitted a WB and used an EMS-ESP gateway (by all accounts offers full control), EMS is still proprietary, so no guarantee that I have complete control. OpenTherm claims to be "open", but not all boiler manufacturers use the full set of commands. If you want sight of the latest version of the OpenTherm specification, you need to "join the club" at a cost of €2,750+tax. At least it is backwards compatible with earlier versions and I have a copy of the V2 spec.

Coming up to three years since having a Viessmann 050 installed, I've tuned in the settings to squeeze as much efficiency out of it as I can, including a full PID (well, more P and I) control loop. Also profiled the heat loss of the building and worked out how fast I can put the heat back in without running at excessively high flow temperatures. As a result, when heating is fired up in the morning and evening, the control calls for a 0.5°C increase every 30 minutes until the ultimate target is reached - This means the place hits target when I get up or get home from work without sitting at (say) 20°C for hours on end. Net result is my efficiency is hovering around 94%.

I suspect Hive, Nest, and Tado have "smart" algorithms that do something similar if you subscribe to their services. But in the spirit of keeping everything in-house, I'd rather use Home Assistant to handle the user interface (or if you prefer, the app), a simple interface for the boiler from DIYLESS, and ESPHome to do the OpenTherm talking - There is a little bit of scripting in the background and a 4" display acting as a thermostat (plus light switches).

Should really dig in to the code for the display and have a screen that plots energy usage and another for temperature/humidity changes. Maybe switch to Tasmota and Berry rather than openHASP.

TELLIT01

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82006175#Comment_82006175

My boiler is 18 years old and problems have only occurred in the last year and a half. 17 years fault free doesn't seem to suggest the boilers are unreliable, exactly the opposite in fact.