Brother Marcus Restauarnt Scam?

Curiosity2017

I do wonder if the "tax" is to cover their business rates?

la531983

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82005468#Comment_82005468

Well that isnt a "tax" and should be built into their pricing like every other business does.

user1977

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82005468#Comment_82005468

Why rates rather than their rent, payroll, supplies etc? Rates aren’t anything to do with turnover.

TeaAndCrumpets

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82004151#Comment_82004151

That’s interesting as based on the numbers it does look like they’ve charged us VAT on the service charge amount too (which was discretionary). I posted all of the relevant numbers earlier in the chain.

Really interesting also to hear that multiple other people have also experienced this. The lack of reviews and confused reaction of the manager (suggesting this doesn’t get queried often) did have us questioning!

Will update if we hear back from the restaurant (or trading standards, but not sure if they would provide me an update or not!)

This wouldn’t be ok even if it were a small independent restaurant, but the fact that a quite large chain is doing this as their common practice is really shocking to me.

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82005589#Comment_82005589

There is no law to say you can't charge VAT on things that dont have to have VAT on as long as its passed on to HMRC… VAT doesnt count as revenue for the company, a VAT registered company is simply an agent for HMRC collecting on behalf of HMRC. Its why in an insolvency HMRC appears in two positions of priority, a 4th rank priority for VAT, NI, PAYE, CIS and 7th ranking for all other taxes (eg corporation tax)

Obviously the question would be why would you charge vat on something you dont have to and then pass on 20% to HMRC but mistakes can be made and some companies do prefer to be whiter than white. Normally its the opposite, firms trying not to charge VAT to make their prices cheaper… HMRC dont have a 100% success rate on challenging these things either, most famously the 1991 case on if Jaffa Cakes are chocolate biscuits (luxury so 20% VAT) or cake (staple food so 0% VAT) - HMRC tried to argue that they were chocolate biscuits so millions in VAT were owed but the manufacturer successfully convinced the tribunal that they were cakes by the fact that cakes go hard when stale whereas biscuits go soft… they even turned up with a giant Jaffa Cake to prove the point

Curiosity2017

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82005554#Comment_82005554

Because I expect the business conciders that a tax.

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82006754#Comment_82006754

But it's just an operational expense of the business like the other factors mentioned. VAT is different, the seller is just a collection agent on behalf of HMRC and the VAT collected is never their money.

In principle a business could decide to not list a TV for £600 but instead list it as £100 VAT, £400 stock cost, £50 staff costs, £100 margin, £30 property cost, £20 utilities but most dont want to be that transparent nor want the discussion with a customer that yes it only took 10 minutes of a sales person on minimum wage but staff costs have to also cover the persons manager, the HR team, IT team, accountants etc etc. In reality it will all be an estimate anyway given many of these things are a fixed cost so the unit cost depends on how many units you sell and the margin will move depending on if you are having a good or bad sales day/week/month

Ergates

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82006754#Comment_82006754

That makes zero sense. No business breaks down their prices like that - certainly not for just one specific business expense.

It's not a tax. It's obviously not a tax. There is no way the business actually thinks it's tax.

They're just lying to defraud people of more money by making their customers believe it's mandatory.

GDB2222

I remember the gardener adding a ULEZ charge to his bill for a while, until he got a new van. Bit of a cheek, but as I’m in favour of not poisoning people with exhaust fumes, I happily paid up.

saajan_12

Must be something recent, I've been before and not seen this particular scam. Have seen other overcharging though, once they brought additional bread baskets without asking and then charged for refills. Another time we asked to remove the service charge after it was super slow, but they left the original amount on the card machine, and apparently couldn't do anything about it (I should have checked on the machine, but couldn't see from across the table and trusted).

Together with the 'checky' charge for tap water and charity donation, I'd say its one too many to be an innocent mistake, and more like trying to sneak in extra revenue.