Croydon - fine for parking outside tariff hours!

Alan76

Hello,

This one is pretty bizarre. I parked at the Leon House car park in Croydon on April 23 at around 7:45 pm. There were signs (see photo below) saying that tariffs only apply between 8am and 6pm Monday to Friday. As this was outside these hours I just parked and left, but I got this PCN anyway. Never heard of anything like this before. Can anyone shed light on this or suggest what can be done? Thanks

Coupon-mad

Appeal then do second stage appeal to POPLA, showing the signs do not mention any £100 charge for 'parking in an area for registered users'. The signs merely set a Pay By Phone rule before 6pm.

Alan76

Thanks I'll do that. But i'm just wondering why/how they issued the fine in the first place. There is literally nothing there about registered users.

Newbie_John

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81990573#Comment_81990573

Because some will pay, so why not?

Car1980

It's an entrapment site. They claim "hours of enforcement 24/7". If you are there outside tariff hours they will claim that's a breach and dish out a "fine" (invoice).

I suspect they will withdraw from any Popla appeal so they can continue to fight another day.

I'd stick at it and complain to the BPA because this is an appalling trap.

They won't do anything but send them a ticking off, but you can cost them a few hundred for replacement signage if you keep at the BPA.

beckstar1975

I think there's two separate hours there, one for residents in the flats and then another area you can pay for. I think they're suggesting you were in the residents area?

Johnersh

The sign must be the complete contract. There is no basis for issuing a PCN on the material we have seen.

Nor should the o/p have to guess what restriction he may have fallen foul of.

The sign could say public parking between X & Y hours. Outside that period, parking is permitted for residents only. That is not dissimilar to retail parks which want no overnight stays.

This signage states unambiguously that no tariffs apply (not that the driver cannot remain parked).

If there are conflicting signs then that too is an issue that ought to be resolved in favour of the defendant.

Car1980

Spot the entrance sign. No chance of seeing that, especially if turning right into the car park.

A entrance sign parallel to the road becomes invisible and is a breach of the Singe Code of Practice.

Alan76

Thank you so much everyone for your advice and comments. I appealed and they rejected, saying that their "signage complies fully with section 18 of the British Parking Association Code of Practice and we reject the suggestion that it is vague or misleading."

I went to the car park for a second time after this and looked at every sign there. There are around four or five signs identical to the "Paid Parking" one above. In addition there are the ones below: Four signs scattered across the car park referring to "Electronic Permit Holders". The last one here is different from the other three and seems to have been changed recently, saying "Registered users only outside of these hours" (i.e. at the time when I parked on April 23). It's quite a large car park and not everyone entering will see this one sign and the very small writing on it. It also seems to have been changed recently - I don't remember seeing any of these four signs before and they could have been put up very recently, after April 23, when I parked here.

The next stage is the POPLA appeal. My questions are:

1. This company is obviously trying to confuse and entrap people but could I lose at POPLA just because of the last sign (the one above)? How much chance do I have of appealing this successfully?
   
2. I really don't want to pay these scam artists 100 pounds even if I do lose at POPLA. Is it certain that I can ignore all their demands for payment if this happens? And can I take the issue to someone else after POPLA?
   
3. Is there any way I can trace the landowner of this car park (Leon House in Croydon)? You can book a space here with Just Park but I've called them and they said they aren't the landowner and don't have any information about who is.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

Coupon-mad

The next stage isn't POPLA. Unless you can prove what I suggested could win:

"do second stage appeal to POPLA, showing the signs do not mention any £100 charge for 'parking in an area for registered users'. The signs merely set a Pay By Phone rule before 6pm."

Did you take those first photos yourself on the day or just after? Add the date/time metadata and you might have the necessary proof. Do you?

If yes, try POPLA with dated photos.

If no, ignore UKPC and await the claim, follow the advice in post 2 of the NEWBIES thread and then (by this time next year) DCB Legal will have discontinued and it'll still end with you paying nothing!

Alan76

I took the first photos on Thursday 7 May, two weeks after the supposed "contravention", on the day the PCN arrived. I then sent them to UKPC to appeal the PCN and they rejected that. This is what I meant when I said the next stage is POPLA. Do you mean that I shouldn't even appeal to POPLA and ignore any further demand for money?