N180 – ELMS Legal & email/post

BlueSkiesFromNowOn

Ok thanks for the help everyone, it's much appreciated. I am going to hand deliver my documents to the court to be safe. Would you recommend me sending these to ELMS/excel too (is there a legal requirement for me to do so)? If it increases the chances of them not attending then I will.

Coupon-mad

If you are talking about your WS and evidence, you have to. Just email it to Elms and copy in Excel. No need to post theirs.

Keep proof it was emailed to both because Excel send reps instructed to say the D's WS wasn't received. Shocking.

Did you include good wording about Excel v Ambler and did you attach that transcript where the Circuit Judge refused Excel's application to appeal it and why?

Did you grab the recommended exhibits including the transcript of Excel v Wilkinson?

And added HHJ Moloney's transcript from the first instance test case judgment in ParkingEye v Beavis?

BlueSkiesFromNowOn

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82105493#Comment_82105493

Thank you, that helps massively.

I have drafted my (hopefully) final version witness statement. and quoted excel vs ambler (crucial one for this case I think), excel vs wilkinson and the beavis case on the ground that it is distinguishable on it's facts (claimant witness statement relies heavily on it). Are there any other crucial bits that I'm missing? I had pasted my full witness statement here, but realised it's too much for someone to look over without having the full facts/background info etc.

Coupon-mad

Linked and/or exhibited Ambler?

Judges won't have the case as it's unreported. Please can you link the transcript here in case others reading your thread need it?

BlueSkiesFromNowOn

I linked and exhibited the Ambler case. I requested the logs in my initial appeal, but they were not sent until the claimant issued their witness statement with evidence bundle. Same with the landowner agreement too, both of which are crucial to this case. This is why I'm glad I waited (truth be told I had just been extremely busy). The redacted payment log is very questionable and the Ambler case is a great one for this, so thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I used this link from another forum member and copied the page into my exhibits
Page 1:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/71vjk013hhwy1koajo1z5/Ambler-appeal-Judgement-p1.jpg?rlkey=3ug9szaole3km81wnvgh8si1q&st=7mk05fg8&dl=0

Page 2:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qx2nx992g9aypmq31vekz/img004.jpg?rlkey=ezo1lygl5oxf9hick7uk1x21z&st=n5zgekrq&dl=0

Coupon-mad

Thanks!

Useful to have the Excel v Ambler transcript here in case newbies are reading:

BlueSkiesFromNowOn

I have emailed my documents directly to the court - I contacted them and they provided an email address.

I have also emailed ELMS and CC'd excel. I received an automated response from ELMS: 'Please be advised that we do not accept service of any court documents via email and please serve any court documents to the following postal address…'.

Is this a concern? And should I be posting the documents as they advise? Realistically, tomorrow is the last day I'm able to post them to ensure they arrive by Friday.

Coupon-mad

Post them in a pile in a big envelope, that'll do!

BlueSkiesFromNowOn

I have posted them today. Thanks @Coupon-mad and everyone else for the help. This forum is an amazing resource and it's massively appreciated. I'll keep you updated on the outcome.

BlueSkiesFromNowOn

Update - I attended the court hearing on Friday.. and won!

I turned up half an hour early (as recommended by the court) and ended up waiting an hour before my case was heard. The case before mine was also excel but with a different representative.

The person who wrote the witness statement for excel didn't turn up so they sent a rep instead, I don't think it did them any favours because the judge commented on this. The rep reminded me of george agdgdgwngo from fonejacker if anyone gets my drift, exactly the same type of character.

After we sat down the judge said he hadn't received excel's WS because it had been sent to the wrong mailbox, so we waited an extra half an hour which I thought was ridiculous. Whilst we were waiting, the rep approached me and asked if I used AI to write my WS. I told him no and then he said there were some discrepancies in the WS so I told him we can discuss in court.

When we resumed the rep asked me exactly what happened on the day. So I recounted my story.. A £4 card payment was made within minutes of entry at Crown Street car park in Leeds centre (google reviews speak for themselves). The amount matched excel’s tariff, the vehicle left within the paid for period, and the merchant reference on my online banking was “City Fusion" (which excel’s own service agreement identifies as the land owner). I also mentioned the receipt of a nearby restaurant purchase 11 minutes before I exited the car park. Interestingly, the only thing he focused on were the screen shots from online banking, everything else in my WS statement was ignored which meant they were clutching at straws.

He first questioned why the post code on my screenshot was a different location to the car park. I said I didn't know, but payment was made at Crown Street and this is the location that appeared in my online banking. This is obviously one of their strategies to try and disprove payment but I couldn't say that. The judge then showed a picture of me entering and exiting the car park and asked if it was me driving the vehicle to which I said yes. A few more questions were asked about the postcode discrepancy, with the rep trying to claim it was proof that no payment was made, but the judge moved us on.

The rep then started asking questions about the length of time it took me to walk from the restaurant to the car park and started reciting some calculations he made using google maps. The judge interrupted him on some basis that I can't remember. The rep then started questioning the time it took me to purchase a ticket after entering the car park, claiming that "I must have been superman (!) to park my car, get out of my car and purchase a ticket within 3 minutes." In the end, the judge agreed that there was a discrepancy with the postcode/location in my online banking, but that 3 minutes is exactly the amount of time he thinks it would take to park up and purchase a ticket. And that 11 minutes is exactly the amount of time it would take to pay for a meal, gather belongings ans leisurely walk back to the car park. Case dismissed.

The rep tried to appeal but the judge immediately refused appeal or right to appeal (I'm not sure on the terminology). Ultimately, I'm glad I paid by card and not cash which I sometimes do. Otherwise I wouldn't have a leg to stand on and would probably have just paid the charge. Just as an aside, I remember in the mediation call excel asked if I still had the paper ticket. I said no, which was probably a mistake as they might have not bothered to show up otherwise. Either way, I'll be keeping hold of my tickets from now on and double checking the VRM is correct before making purchase.

Thanks again to everyone for your help.