work unpaid for left on site, can they charge you

A_Geordie

Sorry, what's the question, is the customer a bailee?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81948651#Comment_81948651

Thanks for posting @A_Geordie question is, assuming customer can reject the fence and doesn't have to pay for it, can they charge OP (the trader) "storage" fees for the fence being left in their garden for too long.

If it makes any difference, we don't know if the customer can reject, the customer may just not be fulfilling their obligations under the contract by cancelling without just cause.

A_Geordie

Under a contract, unless it was agreed charges for storage can be imposed then the answer is no.

However, the customer could seek to claim compensation under what is known as the "hypothetical licence fee". The legal principle is that the trespasser is benefiting from the customer's land without permission and therefore the hypothetical fee represents the amount that a reasonable trespasser would pay for permission to use the land.

Trespass is a per se action which means you don't need to prove intent or harm, the trespass occurs immediately once it has been established that the customer has told the OP to remove the fence sand the OP has failed to remove it.

There have been historical cases where simply pinning an advert to someone's building constitutes trespass or where a 'for sale' sign stretches over into someone's garden, both of which can attract compensation.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81948742#Comment_81948742

Thanks @A_Geordie interesting stuff.

So if the customer turns up in court to defend the claim and asks for storage will the court just say no or will they be kind enough to say no, but we can award you compensation under the hypothetical licence fee principle, i.e is the customer expected to present the exact and correct legal jargon?

lincroft1710

@the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

"That text came from a storage container type company which is different to the OP's situation, a lot of the info online relates to tenants leaving property behind which again is different, these kinds of businesses have a cost in dealing with the matter and storing the items"

That "text" was entirely composed by myself and not copied from anywhere.

A_Geordie

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81948821#Comment_81948821

No the customer can't do that. The customer would need to either counterclaim under existing proceedings or bring a separate claim. The claim doesn't need to contain all of the legal jargon but it does need to explain the claim for compensation is based on trespass and that the OP has benefitted from storing the fence on the customer's land which would otherwise be in storage elsewhere.

Customer would need to prove that the fence was not authorised to stay on their property otherwise the OP could rely on consent as a defence.

GDB2222

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81948963#Comment_81948963

The homeowner is highly unlikely to issue a formal legal claim for rent, so the matter will never be decided by a court. It’s just a bit of sabre rattling by the homeowner to worry the OP. It worked!

Really, the OP should try to resolve this as amicably as possible. The homeowner is getting fed up with the situation. The OP clearly is. So, offer a discount and get the fence repaired and installed pronto.

My own experience of building a custom fence was that the fencing firm hummed and hawed about the quote and eventually came up with a figure of £2500. I bought the wood for £350, and my son and I erected the fence in under a day. It looked so good that a lady in a very posh car stopped and asked me to build one for her, too.

A_Geordie

It's a bit presumptuous to suggest the customer won't take any action as none of us really know what they will do. I merely answered a question that was raised by someone else.

We are talking about an 8m fence that's sitting on the customer's land that they don't want, so I don't think it is as easy as saying that it's highly unlikely that they would not consider issuing a claim against the OP. There are plenty of online communities out there and for all we know that customer could already be seeking advice on another forum or maybe formal legal advice on how to get it removed.

We only have one side of the story, and either the OP has the right to deliver the goods under s.28 of the CRA or the customer has the right to reject the fence and the OP should collect it. OP has issued a claim already so it will be resolved and the court will decide either way. If it turns out the OP's claim fails, then it could support the customer in claiming trespass should they wish to pursue it.

GDB2222

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81950433#Comment_81950433

The customer is on the receiving end of a court claim. I assume that this matter will be resolved when that claim is resolved by the court. If the OP loses, I assume that he will want to collect the fence as it will have some value. If the customer loses he will presumably want it erected. So, apart from putting some pressure on the OP, there’s no reason for the customer to issue proceedings or a counterclaim.

A_Geordie

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81950554#Comment_81950554

There's so many variables we are not aware of, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.