work unpaid for left on site, can they charge you

willywonka1

Hi,
We built a wooden fence in our workshop, that a customer ordered, 8m £3500. But they then said they did not want. so its up against the wall. So we are taking them to court. 3 months later they say they are going to charge rent on the fence that's been ordered, but not put up.

I know persons can charge rent on items left on property, but can they charge if the have ordered the items.

Regards.

Grumpy_chap

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6661499/work-unpaid-for-left-on-site-can-they-charge-you

So, you are the Trader in this case.

You have made a fence which is now leaning up against a wall. Is that still in your workshop or against a wall at the customer's premises?

Is the customer a consumer or another business?

What terms were in the order for delivery, when payment is due etc? Was any of that in writing?

Did the £3.5k cover supply only or supply and install / erect?

LightFlare

Untill the fence is paid for/or the issue resolved, then it is your property.

I would not be leaving it leaning against someone’s wall where it could be damaged or “removed”

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81939114#Comment_81939114

That's not necessarily correct, passing of title is covered under SOGA and is more complex than simply when paid.

OP they can't charge you storage (unless the terms makes such an agreement).

If the customer came here they'd be asked, was this fence made to their specifications (made to order doesn't count as this).

If it wasn't they'd be asked what kind of contract and if distance or off premises (and not made to spec) when did they cancel and if outside the normal period did the trader give the required information on the right to cancel.

If an on premises contract, made to spec or out outside the normal period with correct information given then we'd look to the CRA grey list

A term which has the object or effect of inappropriately excluding or limiting the legal rights of the consumer in relation to the trader or another party in the event of total or partial non-performance or inadequate performance by the trader of any of the contractual obligations, including the option of offsetting a debt owed to the trader against any claim which the consumer may have against the trader.

CMA guidance would suggest you (the trader) claim loss of profits or your costs but not both. Any situation should be mitigated so if the customer cancelled before work began or before you delivered the fence but you went ahead regardless there may be a question of not mitigating which could affect the awarding of general costs.

If you dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's and they refused to pay after delivery I'm not sure the customer has much room to argue.

(They'd also be asked if they are a consumer but I'm assuming so, if they are buying for their trade then B2B would probably leave them liable for payment unless the terms say otherwise).

Grumpy_chap

OP they can't charge you storage (unless the terms makes such an agreement).

I was, and remain, unclear whether the fence is at the OP's workshop still or at the customer's premises.

I, initially at least, read the OP's comment "they say they are going to charge rent on the fence that's been ordered, but not put up" as a hire fee for the fence, not a hire fee (storage) for the space where the fence is leaning against the wall.

I agree that would be odd.

Hopefully the OP will clarify the queries that have been asked.

Ectophile

Have you agreed a rental agreement on the fence? No, of course you haven't. They are trying it on.

Do you have the correct contact in place for the fence? One that complies with consumer protection laws. If not, then your lawsuit may go nowhere.

Jumblebumble

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81939246#Comment_81939246

It is quite clear to me

No one in their right minds will threaten to charge a storage or hire fee for a fence that they don't have and does not belong to them

Although sometime people are plain stupid

I had a late friend who i introduced to a boat club

He left a boat there and ran up some modest storage arrears

I approached the club and offered to pay as he was in financial trouble

they declined by insisting I could not pay as it was not my boat

they then tried a few months later to charge me disposal costs

I told them to do one as they had helpfully clarified that it wasn't my boat

Grumpy_chap

No one in their right minds will threaten to charge a storage or hire fee for a fence that they don't have and does not belong to them

Assuming the fence does not belong to the customer. As @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head has said, passing of title is not always linked to payment. In addition, passing of title and passing of risk may not necessarily occur at the same time.

It remains unclear to me whether the OP is talking about a "storage fee" or a "hire fee". The two are, AIUI, wholly different. In my interpretation:

• Storage Fee = the fence belongs to the Trader and has been delivered to the Consumer but not paid for (and title not passed), the Consumer expects the Trader to remove the fence from their property. The storage fee is for that "safekeeping" of the fence.
• Hire Fee = the fence belongs to the Consumer (and title has passed, irrespective of the fact that in this case the Consumer seems not to have paid for the fence yet) but has not been delivered to the Consumer, the Consumer is therefore charging the Trader to hire (have the possession / use of) the fence.

Neither scenario seems obviously sensible in this case but either scenario could be possible. My initial reading of the OP was that this is a permanent boundary fence / panels, but it could be a fence of the type that is more commonly hired, such as construction site fencing panels (HERAS or similar).

born_again

Ultimately was the customer ever made aware that cancelling (inc the timescale) the order would incur any charges?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

I think the customer is saying fence is on their property and if OP doesn’t collect it they want “rent” (aka storage fees) for it being left there.

Hopefully OP will come back and clarify everything.

Okell

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81940194#Comment_81940194

Looking at previous threads I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for anything to be clarified…