We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).

📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

PCN reminder before further action - CEL

1235»

Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 166,383
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Forumite
    edited 12 August at 11:50PM

    That was a very quick discontinuation by CEL!

    ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!

    That contract the Parish Council signed is an embarrassment to them. How could they be so easily duped into signing THAT?!

    😅

    Here it is again for our delectation:

    IMG_2415.jpeg IMG_2416.jpeg


    Having read those clauses in full, this is my interpretation of what this Parish Council has actually agreed to!

    Eeek!!

    • Creative/CEL keeps all the money;
    • Creative/CEL gags the Client from discussing PCNs or complaints, as you spotted;
    • there is an initial fixed term of TEN YEARS with (except if Creative goes out of business or chooses to walk away) no termination of the agreement possible for the client in that time period;
    • it creates a tenancy for Creative/CEL, who can even sue for trespass, and they look to be sitting tenants even if the site is sold or managing agents change;
    • A FURTHER TEN YEARS automatically renews which is also set in stone, unless the client (or new owner) uses the 'blink and you miss it/time is of the essence' 30 day window that is set without a reminder, immediately prior to the first ten year period expiring;
    • if CEL's VRM keypad system fails, the onus is on the (absent landlord or new owner) client to somehow know this has failed on a day-to-day basis. They are required to immediately ensure the businesses record every numberplate of patrons manually and provide that data to Creative/CEL daily, until such time as the system is restored, and it looks like that obligation is endless … but CEL has no obligation to address technical failure at all (see 6.2);
    • CEL only has to be 'a member' of the BPA or IPC and operate 'in accordance with' the applicable AOS scheme (NB: not necessarily remain or be an AOS member);
    • and wait: even if Creative/CEL are stripped of or otherwise lose the ability to get DVLA data, this agreement continues - and here's where it gets worse:
    • The Parish Council 'can' cancel 5 PCNs per month but that's not free, they have to pay all cancelled PCNs in full within 21 days, at the rate the PCN stands at (which is clearly why the landowner was refusing to exercise that pointless 'right');
    • The Council has no right to terminate (except as noted above) but Creative have an exclusive right to cancel the agreement with 45 days' notice, e.g. if they aren't 'raping and pillaging' (see below linked example from a sector whistleblower**) the site sufficiently to their liking;
    • but it reads as if termination of the agreement for whatever reason (and it doesn't seem to exclude Creative deciding to withdraw, or the Parish Council using the 'blink and you miss it/time is of the essence' short 30 day window on the ten year anniversary) means the Parish council becomes liable for PAYING CREATIVE ALL UNPAID PCNs AT THE RATE THEY STAND AT THE TIME, WITHIN 21 DAYS.*

    *That's £millions (theoretically the entire 'debt book' going back 10 or 20 years because it doesn't say it limits this obligation to whether these 'unpaid PCNs' are statute barred…).

    Even if it is six years worth, that is a debt book of £MILLIONS. And because these two parties are not consumers, the Parish Council is stuck with it and is every bit as damned by this ill-advised time bomb of an agreement as Somerfield was when ParkingEye sued them and ruined them for £hundreds of thousands despute Parking Eye being held to be 'guilty' of the tort of deceit against consumers.

    And they almost certainly won't be able to sell the site with this tenant, IMHO.

    ** http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/12/parkingeye-employee-reveals-their-rape.html?m=1

    Normally, Creative pay just £1+VAT for these astonishing rip-off rights but to rush the Parish Council to sign up, it says they'd bung them a bounty of £400 to hurry up and sign the above. No wonder they rushed the council!

    I can't think for a minute that a competent lawyer looked at that agreement.

    Looks to me like the Parish Council is stuck with this and even if CEL are binned off by the DVLA or their system crashes completely, the Council (or any future site owner for 20 years) is liable to pay without fail, EVERY UNPAID PCN which CEL can continue to generate but won't be able to post if they get a DVLA ban one day.

    Not to mention how poor CEL signs are:

    image.jpeg

    No doubt with an unremarkable tablet perched on a desk inside the premises, looking like a staff computer monitor with no red arrow or red hand pointing consumers to it, nor warning of the PCN risk… like in these awful pics:

    No doubt with an unremarkable tablet perched on a desk inside the premises, looking like a staff computer monitor with no red arrow or red hand pointing consumers to it, nor warning of the PCN risk…

    They don't even print receipts so you can't be sure it worked…

    Not a fair contractual term. It's no good only having signs outside, if there are related obligations with onerous risk inside premises.

    Signs in the car park are not enough. What if it's pouring with rain or it's dark, or you are disabled and unable to see those terms 8 feet up an unlit pole?

    It's exactly like having a P&D machine but without the massive PAY HERE! yellow block thing above it to alert people.


    Look at all these awful pics:


    Behind the door at a Costa, with no sign next to it shouting at you to use it or warning you:

    'HAVE YOU EXEMPTED YOUR VEHICLE? IF YOU DO NOT USE THIS SCREEN AND STAY ON SITE LONGER THAN 90 MINUTES, OR IF YOU MAKE A TYPO, YOU ARE AGREEING TO PAY £100..'

    IMG_3211.jpeg

    Amongst clutter on a desk at an Orthopaedic Centre, looks like staff equipment:

    IMG_3086.jpeg IMG_3088.jpeg IMG_3095.jpeg IMG_3096.jpeg IMG_3101.jpeg IMG_3102.jpeg IMG_3103.jpeg


    Even when they have a message (like the above few) there is no contractual sign nor an arrow shouting a warning at you, so why would a consumer walk up to it?


    Why does the CMA (so far) think people are bound by these hidden VRM keypads?!

    IMG_3099.jpeg IMG_3098.jpeg IMG_3097.jpeg

    Completely unremarkable.

    There's no employee standing there pointing at these keypad traps all day!

    Typically, the screen is tucked away and unnoticeable, like this appallingly hidden one in another gym, that users didn't see (I added the red arrow pointing to it!):

    image.jpeg

    😡

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
★ ★ ★ Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 355.8K Banking & Borrowing
  • 254.9K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 456.2K Spending & Discounts
  • 248.3K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 606K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 179K Life & Family
  • 263.8K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.7K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.