New Storage Heater Query

eric4395

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81928209#Comment_81928209

I am failing to understand why everyone is doubting my off peak times. i have another storage heater an old creda model in my hall that comes on approx 23:15 ish every night and stops at 07 :30. My smart app box that was left for me after my smart meter was fitted shows that from 23:00 till 07:30 my rate is now the night rate at approx 16p per unit used. I am totally confident the charging settings on my new Ecostrad heater from midnight till 7 am are within the cheap rate window. It has been connected up properly by my installer to charge during these periods. My last heater that i replaced with this new one always worked within these hours on the cheap rate.

WiserMiser

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81927526#Comment_81927526

The problem is the hopeless manual. I'd be hoping that the requirement to program the cheap rate hours applies only in the case where the NSH has just the 24h supply cable and it's trying to replicate the meter's switching times. Therefore this step ought to be redundant when the NSH has the restricted hours supply as well, but it's not explained.

If you can't skip this programming step, you could try telling it the cheap rate hours are 0000 to 2359 so that it will always be successful when it's trying to charge.

Perhaps the poor manual does not do the Magma justice but, as Essex Hebridean notes, it seems to be a somewhat inferior product when compared to the Dimplex Quantum (which forumites regard as the brand leader). There's no fan and the basic Magma also seems to lack the ability to set holiday dates.

Note that the Instruction Manual on the Ecostrad is out of date (17 March 2025). 🙄 Here's the most recent I could find. https://www.electricradiatorsdirect.co.uk/manuals/ecostrad/Ecostrad_Magma_HHR_User_Manual.pdf

It's much more detailed but still doesn't explain why the charging times need to be programmed for a 2-cable installation.

I'm surprised that Ecostrad can't suggest any installers. They're not doing themselves any favours if customers can't get the best from a relatively expensive product.

Have you tried phoning an Ecostrad expert? It won't be the person who answers the phone so you'll have to persevere, but someone there should be able to help, even if they have to refer to the manufacturer in Germany. Alternatively you could even try cutting out the middleman and contacting Germany directly rather than the box shifters.

Edit: typos

EssexHebridean

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81928254#Comment_81928254

It's surely simpler though to do what Dimplex (and I think Creda?) do, and simply allow the default to be "off peak circuit becomes live - heater charges/off peak circuit becomes dead - heater stops charging" - as soon as you introduce the variable of the user needing to programme the charging times, you risk a full charge as required not being taken, and that in turn makes it more likely that a non-overridden balancing element will come into play?

@WiserMiser It doesn't look to me as though there IS an option to leave the charging times unprogrammed - which just seems to be designed to create confusion in the user. I can well remember being totally caught out the first time we witnessed a change in our E7 times (clock change) - thinking that we'd be doing *something* on cheap rate, and of course we weren't, because of the hours movement, and certainly we've encountered an awful lot of folk on here who even after a good few years of E7 use, simply hadn't realised that their timings changed!

bob2302

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81928296#Comment_81928296

Most people with these heaters are on E7 which has 7 hours a night at the cheap rate. A small minority have a gap in that seven hour, which may be what's happenning here.

bob2302

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81928385#Comment_81928385

I think this is so implausible, as to be discounted - I expect it's just poorly documented. It's easy enough to test by looking at the overnight peak usage.

My guess is that it autodetects a dual supply and either ignores the timings or uses them to limit when the switched supply can be used.

WiserMiser

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81928504#Comment_81928504

Why would you want to limit when the switched supply can be used? Can't think of any valid reason apart from wanting the charging to end just before the end of the cheap rate; that would reduce the heat lost through leakage, albeit only slightly.

However, in most cases a clever NSH with two supply cables should be able to detect the switched circuit being livened up for the first time that night. Even if there's a two-hour gap, with E7 it's always 2 On, 2 Off and 5 On AFAIK, so it's easy to work back from when it ends around dawn to determine when to start charging.

The problem may be that it's a German design that hasn't been optimised for the UK. Same sort of things can be seen in cars designed for LHD countries, e.g. floor pan, wipers, handbrake etc aren't always optimum in the RHD versions.

Scot_39

The user manual talks about opening a vent - does that mean the heater is passive convection only ?

No fan like on the Dimplex (that iirc blows out the bottom not top on Quantums) ?

If I search the user manual for fan - it fails to find it

Ildhund

@WiserMiser asked:

Why would you want to limit when the switched supply can be used?

We've seen many cases in these forums where there are mismatches between the tariff switching timetable in a SMETS2 meter and the active timings for the switched circuit governed by the meter's ALCS¹. There are also plenty of examples of archaic Economy 7 controllers for immersion heaters that are out of kilter with the tariff timings. Then there is the question of the meter's randomized offset of up to 30 minutes, which delays the tariff and circuit switching times. Until these factors have all been nailed down precisely by painstaking observation, anyone trying to restrict big loads to offpeak times would be well advised to 'limit when the switched supply can be used.' The randomized offset is especially problematic for those on half-hourly metered ToU tariffs.

1. ALCS: Auxiliary Load Control Switch

Scot_39

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81928254#Comment_81928254

As far as the 3.4kW yes.

But it has a top up heater - 750W on the larger 2 - and from the manual - it can use that at peak or off peak times or both if required - inside and outside programmed charge window - from live - (the user can select disabled, either or both sets of times).

Its "only" 750W - but its still notable load if get it wrong.

And given the OP is in Scotland - where average temps can be 3-4C lower than in the south - it is likely they may need more energy than many.

And certainly on switch on - if enabled - the heaters could have been using both sets of elements - at least for a while.

The OP appears to have been changed from an old 3 rate tariff - to a new 2 rate tariff - so at least the top up if is used overnight - will be off peak (it wouldn't have been on their old comfort RTS meter / tariff I suspect)

PS Off topic

Does anyone know what the German equivalent of E7 might be - just wondering why Ecostrad quoting 30kWh store capacity vs say Dimplex c23.1kWh (7x3.3 ? a physical limit or just a presumption of e7 use).

8.5*3.4 = 28.9 - so maybe a useful advantage over the Dimplex - to a Sottish Power customer - in a colder part of UK.

https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/energy-efficiency/energy-efficiency-toolkit/electric-heating/

WiserMiser

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81928866#Comment_81928866

Seems to be this patented silent flap. Bit like on the old Box of Bricks ones closed by a bi-metallic strip or a manual knob. No fan shown on the diagram.