New Storage Heater Query

eric4395

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81925857#Comment_81925857

I have a smart meter i check how much and how many units i use during the 24 hr period. i have a day rate ( Scottish power my provider ) of 33p a kwh between the hours of approx 0:7:30 and 23:00 and a night economy rate of 16p per kwh used 23:00 and 07:30 which is when im charging the storage heater. At no time during the day is the storage heater using any electricity neither did my old one.. When i get up at 9am the only item that has been on during the night apart from a fridge is the heater so the amount shown in my smart app can only be off peak rate rate that my storage heater has used charging.? I have shown these in my original post, the only part i cant understand is why i used so many units between 2 & 3 am when i had it programmed to not be on then ?

QrizB

the only part i cant understand is why i used so many units between 2 & 3 am when i had it programmed to not be on then ?

You didn't program it "not to be on" you programmed it "not to heat the house".

It will still charge during those periods.

You need to understand:

• The heater will charge during your offpeak hours
• The heater will heat your house when you program it to be on

When you:

set it to 18 deg to come on between the hours of 00:00 and 2 am and then between 5 am and 7 am so within the timescale of the cheaper rate times 23:30 pm till 07:30 am.

You're telling it to heat your house to 18 degrees C between 0000 and 0200, and between 0500 and 0700. Which it seems it did.

You shouldn't then be surprised when:

Gets up in the morning heater hot & room warm and programmed to be at 18 deg all day i hoped. Needless to say come about 8pm temp has dropped and room is colder.

By the time you've got up, you're out of the cheap rate period. The heater has only stored enough heat to be hot from 0000 to 0200 and from 0500 to 0700, so when you change the programme to be "18 deg all day" it hasn't stored any heat for that period and the heater will go cold.

What you need to do:

• Programme the heater tonight to know when you want the room to be warm tomorrow
• Leave it alone tomorrow, unless you decide you want something else for the following day

Do you understand?

eric4395

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81925897#Comment_81925897

Still a bit confused Not disputing what you have said but the First night when i just let the heater come on naturally it came on just after 11 pm. I also never had any confirmed settings set at particular hours but the heater was cool by 8pm that night as well

The 2nd night when i programmed it to come on at 12 am thats when it came on, it didnt come on just after 11 pm Which doesnt tally up with your explanation above

So if i change these settings i will just let the heater come on at night at approx 23:00 and leave it till i get up in the morning. Which means approx £5 + useage more than i was using in my old heater ? The settings i have at midnight till 2 am and 5 am till 7am i will change to 9am to 11 am and 18:00 to 21 :00

I will keep the setting at 18 deg for now. But these are now in the peak time rate but are you saying the heat comes from the heat already stored during the night and wont be the higher day rates now ?.

Scot_39

Timings - what tariff do they match

And as Wisermiser above - you may have to check for any meter offsets (on a smart meter that can be upto 30min from the regional times)

23:30 to 07:30 is 8 hours - not 7 hours.

So are you say on an old SP preset whitemeter type variant - iirc that offered 8 to 8.5 hours off peak ?

As to higher day 1 consumption / so the £5 bills

I didnt see it in the quick scan of the manual earlier - but other HHR models - like Dimplex - have a default day 1 target energy consumption - iirc the Quantum is preset to 80%. So it will take that level whether you power it up in spring like now or in the middle of winter - when that 80% might actually be needed. On their largest model thats nearly 20 kW - or around £5 at flat rate - but should be cheaper on E7 off peak.

Another possible reason why your old heaters would seem cheaper - is it is unlikely they had gone fully cold - at this time of year especially - so they would only be topping back up the difference - so that would mean lower day to day consumption - and so bills.

The reality though is over time - both would need the same amount of energy to heat your room to your target temperature. So the bills should average out.

Scot_39

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81925932#Comment_81925932

Be careful / please clarify by what you mean by ON

Input ON - Charging Core

A dual wired NSH - can takes its queue - simply from the restricted feed being on. (Dimplex do so)

Some however allow manual timer settings - to override that "automatic" detection. Some suggest you actually need to program the times (Elnurs) - but users say in reality they will charge if dont.

Your heater - as above manual link - section 5.2.3 on page 20 - however says you do need to program Charge Periods to match your off peak tariff periods.

Your installer should really ideally have done that. But once these are set to match - exactly if want the max off peak charge period - e7 7 hours say - you shouldnt with charge adaption really have to ever touch again.

And those timings - are different from the heating mode - fixed or weekly scheduled - in 5.2.4/5.2.6

Output ON - Heating Room

A fan assisted HHR will generally only turn on the fan - when you ask it to heat the room.

And you have two modes as per 5.2.4 in manual - fixed - and weekly schedule / programmed

You only mention one temp - the 18C - but then talk about it only being on - for a couple of hours at a time - so are you using the weekly mode and comfort set to 18C.

Which appears to allow Comfort / Eco / Frost room temperature settings - 1,2,or 3 blobs per hour per day - each of those 3 room temperature targets - seperately adjustable - in the weekly mode.

Top Up Element (the 750W)

That can be disabled - set to operate during off peak period charging - during day rate (expensive) - or any time required. As per 5.2.5

eric4395

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81925944#Comment_81925944

I am with Scottish power region 18.

Used to be called comfort control plus

But since we got new smart meter earlier this year as it replaced the old radio teleswitch meters as it was phased out .

Scottish power said the best rate/s for me were the new smart day rate and night rates as i needed it for my type of heating. (We dont have any gas in our area). I notice on my bill all it says is meter type white meter 1.

I know what time my cheaper rate night heating comes on as i feel the heater starting to get warm after 23:00 and i know it goes off at about 07:30 as thats when my usage drops significantly that i can see on my smart app box . The amount of kwh i used every hour was never consistent some nights as an example between 2am and 3am could be very different from the next night and the same for any hour between 23:00 and 07:30. Maybe because of the temperatures being different they sent out different amounts like a weathercall. estimate. Its 23 :55 now and heater wont come on as its not programmed to start till midnight.

If i removed both these set times tomrow and never added anytime just like the 1st day i used it then i would get up the following morning with a very hot heater that came on just after 23:00 and a bill showing over use £5 usage however by 8 pm it would be cool and the room is def cooler than 18 deg.

Thats midnight now and heating building up for for next 2 hrs.

WiserMiser

Provided that each HHR NSH has both a 24h supply and a cheap rate supply switched by the meter, and that your installer has correctly wired everything, then you only have to tell it how warm you want to be and when… but NOT when to charge up.

You can tell it to follow the same routine every day, or you can make some days different, e.g. weekends and Working From Home. Ditto, evenings a bit warmer if you're likely to be sitting down rather than busy doing chores.

That's it, job done.

Then leave it alone and it'll settle down and do exactly that.

QrizB

There's two things here that we need to check.

Provided that each HHR NSH has both a 24h supply and a cheap rate supply switched by the meter, and that your installer has correctly wired everything,

Has the installer fitted this heater properly, with dual supplies? OP can you confirm this?

a very hot heater that came on just after 23:00 and a bill showing over use £5 usage

Where are you getting your cost information from? Is this what your in-home display says, or is it from your on-line Scottish Power account?

Scot_39

not sure SP are sending anything dynamic to new rts replacement smart meters - but they could be - Snug Octopus does (and when if that comes back at anywhere near 9p vs most oops e7 e10 c15p at big suppliers rates before April cuts - you really should think about it)

Depending on settings - not all nsh's will draw power solidly for tge complete duration of an off peak period. They can cycle on input thermostat for instance. Or if you demand heat on hhr leak heat on old - cool enough to take a secondary charge.

same with HW immersion tank heaters which will rarely take more than say 1-2 hrs depending on size and hw use ( a very large and previous nights hw drained heavily baths, multiple high flow showers etc cpuld be longer )

My off peak loading shows 2x1.7kW nsh, 1 3.4 kW large nsh and 3kW immersion heaters coming and going - so can be 0-10kW for hesting - in each of my 3 e10 off peak periods. Two of which ard only 2 hrscapart, so not everythinb cones on at my midnight slot for instance.

Single off peak periods though likely to be front loaded - all coming on at your say 2300.

You keep referring to a very hot heater - output or case ? HHR's should be better insulated and their cases cooler (still warm) than older designs - if very hot when not having air forced through (I assume they are fan assisted ?) - could the internal insulation plates be badly fitted ?

Others have posted issues like that on other models - needing a refit / repair ?

eric4395

Yes installer has connected it properly 2 cables from heater into 2 switches on wall 1 for the economy night rate and the other 24 hr supply. He only had to connect the original cables into the new heater. He didnt need to touch any of the sockets as they were used for my previous creda heater both the same wattage 3.4 kwh.

i get my information from the little smart app box that came with the smart meter.( I thought everyone had these that got a smart meter fitted ?)

I can check how many units ive used when i get up in the morning. You can also check its usage by the hour as i have shown in previous figures &. The amount it has cost so far ie old heater used to be somewhere between £3 and £3:50 every morning while this new one showed over £5 at 9am and the heat didnt even last all day .

Ps while the heater def came on last night at midnight till 2 am ( the smart box app confirms this)for some reason it never came back on between 5am and 7am and the room was cold this morning😲. Think i need to get in touch with Ecostrad technical dept for advice.