Thermaflow Boiler - Wet Electric Heating Tariff

Scot_39

Yes - its also easy to forget the OP in the case potentially hasn't had the advantage of the old RTS - although a little worried uses the phrase not "sending" data - not how RTS worked - rather than not "measuring" data - how they do work or at least how mine did - you still had to read / submit manual readings. As in tge line in firxt post

"Moved into a property with an old broken RTS meter - it's not sending any data, but was a 'complex' multi-rate one with 3 rates."

unlesx thats a reference to SP no longer transmitting its RTS signals to thr meter - which for weathercall tariffs and thtc in NS supply region would traditionally include dynamic tou timings

So maybe has no reference data splitting the bills properly into whatever form that old RTS had (SP have a raft of specials depending on region and home wiring - see link) - and then the additional complexity of sometimes matching that to other use - if in fact SP dont replicate that exactly - that can often be registered under different bands / rates on new meter as well.

I wonder if the OP recognises any of the following SP legacy and/or inherited regional tariffs from bills -

https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/energy-efficiency/energy-efficiency-toolkit/electric-heating

And with the arrival hopefully of milder spring weather soon - likely wont need the same degree of heating by time gets smart meter installed next month. To garner it quickly from his new smart meters half hourly data.

Although intelligent guesses based on absolute totals sometimes possible - often not for the feint hearted.

But at least spring arrival also hopefully takes a little pressure off of making the new tariff call now.

It will be interesting to see what meter SP does in fact replace the now defunct RTS - as they have been in at least one forumites case fitting meters capable of doing at least a variant of heat only metering - perhaps to replicate an old comfort tariff - with a bespoke control rate for heating potentially (using the twin element Aclara 1422 iirc the one post here)

purkles

Oh wow, thanks for everyone's input! How do you get to speak to the complex meter team? I've emailed the CEP, spoke to complaints, social media etc. They are only offering a standard tariff.

I'm in DNO 18 SP Energy Networks. I've just bought the house so can't escape this; my old flat has gas. The RTS meter was faulty when we moved in and as you can tell I'm not very familiar with it or electric boilers. It's not a smart RTS meter, my wording wasn't very accurate, just a normal old style RTS meter with a digital display. The readings on the meter don't move and no information is being sent to Scottish Power about our usage.

The bill shows 3 sections - one which should be peak, one for off-peak and one for heating.

I will look into Octopus Cosy, it just seems ridiculous that this is supposed to be the most efficient energy, but also the most expensive. There's already other house repairs outstanding so I don't think I'd be able to afford storage heaters for a long time. It's a 4 in block upstairs flat and apparently we can't currently get a heat pump either. To put gas in is also a huge overhaul and very expensive as well. I work from home 3 days per week, so would need water but heating not a necessity.

The water runs off the mains, no electric shower and all hot water will be from the boiler. There's no separate water tank. We don't tend to use heating much at all, but apparently these boilers need to have the heating on to keep warm water at the ready. I really don't understand how it works to be honest.

Meter.jpeg

Boiler.jpeg

QrizB

The readings on the meter don't move

If the meter has been giving the same readings ever since moving in, the very first step has to be to get your meter replaced. This is a job for your current supplier SP. Raise a complaint (if you don't already have one open) and take it to the Ombudsman if you have to.

Once you've got a working meter, you can switch away. I think you'll struggle to get a supplier to take your account without a meter replacement first, although you might be lucky.

WiserMiser

Your meter doesn't send any readings. You (or a meter reader) have to do that every month.

Did you or the agent take the opening readings?

It's showing Register 2, which is probably the one used overnight.

Press the blue button several times to see the other registers and note all the readings and take photos. Do all the readings stay the same day after day?

The 'RED' warning icon is interesting. If you don't have solar it could mean that meter tampering has taken place at some time.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=What+does+%27RED%27+on+the+display+of+a+Horstmann+radio+telemeter+Series+K+display+mean%3F

[Deleted User]

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81893873#Comment_81893873

"Your meter doesn't send any readings"

Exactly, as I had anticipated, it's not a smart meter.

[Deleted User]

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81893804#Comment_81893804

To contact SP complex metering team, contact SP and ask specifically that their complex metering team deals with your case.

Whilst I believe that model of meter has been used elsewhere for E7, you have described it as being set up as a 3 rate meter. Your billing also appears to confirm this. That is why SP cannot offer you E7 at present.

Only smart meters send readings to your supplier. As you do not have a smart meter, you need to provide them with the readings.

If the meter is failing to accurately record usage, then report it to your energy supplier. They have an obligation to provide you with a meter that accurately records consumption.

Don't confuse issues further (e.g. by attempting to switch supplier) until you have a fully functioning meter. Note that if you move away from your legacy supplier, they are under no obligation to provide you with a suitable alternative tariff arrangement, even if you attempt to move back to them later.

What kind of space heating does the property have? That 'boiler' appears to be a hot water tank with multiple immersion heaters, possibly to power hot water via radiators and/or water fed underfloor heating. i.e. some form of electric boiler

Scot_39

The three rates is interesting as suggests you did potentially have a separate heating (comfort) rate / circuit for the boiler - from normal home circuit day / night rate (lights etc).

Do any of the 3 single meter 3 rate (day/night/comfort) tariffs on the SP link above - appear on your bills (Whitemeter, posibly with weathercall or Economy 2000 ?).

Note the comments about heating type on the economy2000 - it metions boilers - but also upto 2 hour gap between low rate power being available at several times per day.

I could not make out anything on the boiler label in the photo - any chance of a boiler make / model number - so someone here can comment - from having maybe similar in the past ?

Even standard Whitemeter Comfort gave 8.5 hrs a day rather than standard E7's 7.

And most modern E7 meters don't split the measurement of normal and heating circuits - they only have 1 measurement that applies to whole house - split by time - often witrh NSH etc - a restricted time feed - only active during the low rate charge period(s).

As above SP might therefore choose to offer you a modern equivalent - capable of measuring the heating circuit separately from other circuits in the home - and that might restrict your choice of tariffs and possibly worst case suppliers.

So the first thing to do is talk to SP about your heating system type and a meter upgrade - try to make sure you get through their front line customer service - to their advanced / complex / RTS replacement metering team if they have one - as fear front line call staff could be largely clueless about your old meter - and your heating type interaction with any new one.

purkles

Update July 2026

Scottish Power have been absolutely useless. No help or advice, and won't let me speak to the complex meter team, that's if they even have one.

Got a smart meter in March, but they left the 2nd MPAN attached so struggled to switch. Went to ombudsman, and it's still not sorted.

Looks like once it's sorted I'll probably go with Octopus Cosy or EON next to try and get the 3 off-peak times per day. Very unlikely to use the heating much, if at all as its so expensive. It's over £3 in the morning when I get up and that's just heating the boiler up (fingers crossed a bit better on an off-peak tariff). We got a Hive and only let it come on once per day. Electric costing about £5 or £6 per day if run the washing machine and dryer as well.

Will see how it goes once switched and the boiler serviced. Was looking at a gas one but takes about 9 years to recoup costs. I'm in an upstairs flat and the heatpump companies so far said no.

Scot_39

SP have as above been fiting both standard single element and so called twin elements to replicate twin mpan / complex rts meter / tariff billing systems.

Have you had a bill since Mar - does it have tariff info and units on both MPANs still ?

in tbe case of twin element - there are usere here at other suppliers - including iirc a recent active thread with someone struggling at Octopus (edit or maybe not as failed to find it by search again) - who may now have the post smart meter period billing resolved - who have also retained the two mpans. They are on an e10 alcs calander iirc.

So are you sure the 2nd mpan is redundant ?

It is probably one wsy they can attribute different tariff / alcs type timings and rates to the secondary output. Tracking the independent metering and so billing it makes available for heating on secondsry to normal house circuits on primary.

So can you confirm the meter type fitted in Mar - make and model (a picture with serial numbers redacted ideally - one up close of meter one of meter and its wiring in meter cabinet /vacinity ideally.)

And what the new tariff basis is after the smart upgrade - rates /:times (per circuit if different for the 2 mpans) ?

im a bit horrified if its gone standard rate - but a few of the comfort heating rates were quite close cf other suppliers say e7 peak off peak differentials to SR - thtc was mentioned as such by one user. Even my e10 off peak is about 5p closer than e7 off peak would be to SR - thd price I pay for getting the rate for 10 hrs. In my case importantly split 3 times a day (5night, 3 early aftrnoon, 2 evening).

purkles

Hi, thanks for your reply.

The second MPAN has only just been de-energised, but I'm still waiting on a logical disconnection from SP to the DNO. Both MPANs are still on the latest bill as it was only done about a week ago. I get a bill and pay every month. The DNO is involved and trying to help since SP have no clue what they're doing.

I've been on the standard tariff since December. I thought it would be sorted a lot quicker. SP wouldn't offer any tariff with off-peak times.

The smart meter is an SMET2S with 5 ports instead of 4, the port is controlled by the Hive so the boiler can only come on when we request it.